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  1. #201
    Prolific Poster bunnyfufu's Avatar
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    Unlike wealth, costs always trickle down. I had a discussion recently with a friend who argued that it was unfair to homeowners to have to pay for a school bond because the renters in the community voted for it. The logic didn't really make sense to me, because it's not like the home owners who are renting out the house are just going to up and say, "Well, it's a tax so it's my responsibility."

    They are going to build the cost into the rent. Duh.

    In the same way, the delay seems to be a bit of a red herring. I don't for one second think that the government is shut down because the Republicans simply cannot accept a refusal to delay the Medical Device tax. It really is part of a larger goal and I believe that the way the game is played now is to simply tire the other side out. It's not about a true cost vs. benefit analysis.

    I think Robert Reich says it well,
    "No one likes big government. If you’re on the left, you worry about the military-industrial-congressional complex that’s spending zillions of dollars creating new weapons of mass destruction, spying on Americans, and killing innocents abroad. And you don’t like government interfering in your sex life, telling you how and when you can have an abortion, whom you can marry. If you’re on the right, you worry about taxes and regulations stifling innovation, out-of-control bureaucrats infringing on your freedom, and government deficits as far as the eye can see.

    So when Tea Party Republicans, bankrolled by a handful of billionaires, began calling the Affordable Care Act a “wholesale takeover of American health care,” many Americans were inclined to believe them. Health care is such a huge and complicated system, affecting us and our families so intimately, that our inherent distrust of government makes us instinctively wary. It’s no accident we’re still the only advanced nation not to have universal health care. FDR decided against adding it to his plan for Social Security because he didn’t want to jeopardize the rest of the program; subsequent presidents never got close, at least until Obama.



    The best argument for the Affordable Care Act is that our current healthcare system is so dysfunctional — the most expensive in the world with the least healthy outcomes (highest infant mortality, shortest life spans, worst rates of chronic disease) of any advanced nation — that we had no choice but to try to fix it. Even so, it’s a typical American fix: It’s still based on private health providers and private insurers. All government does is subsidize the poor, require insurers to take in people with pre-existing health problems, and pay for it by requiring everyone to be insured.



    The Tea Party Republicans’ mistake was to assume that Americans’ distrust of big government, and, by extension, the Affordable Care Act, would allow them to ride roughshod over the process we have for making laws.



    Their double-barreled threat to shut down the government and cause the United States to default on its obligations if the Affordable Care Act isn’t repealed or at least delayed is a direct assault on our system of government: If even unpopular laws can be gutted by a majority in one house of Congress holding the rest of government hostage, there’s no end to it. No law on the books will be safe. (Their retort that Congress holds the “purse strings” and can therefore decide to de-fund what it dislikes is bunk; appropriation bills have to be agreed to by both houses and signed into law by the president, like any other legislation.)"
    Robert Reich

    I think it is really great that you are concerned about the rising medical costs. I am, too.
    indigoV51 and ClairesMommy like this.

  2. #202
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    woo hoo the debt ceiling has been raised! We are going to hit $17 trillion any day now, up from $10 trillion when Obama took office. (That's only up 60% right?) Let's all celebrate that our grandchildren will get to pay this money back because we are too weak to stop spending it.
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 10-17-2013 at 02:21 PM.
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  3. #203
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    I read an article the other day on the 'debt ceiling'. I'm going to try to find it and see what you guys think of it, as Americans.

    U.S. government shutdown: Is the debt ceiling a 'stupid' idea? - CBC News - Latest Canada, World, Entertainment and Business News

  4. #204
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    I think of a debt ceiling as like a credit card limit. It is very foolish, IMO, to have no limit on borrowing. In my personal finances if I just spent whatever I wanted to without having the money to back it up that would be very irresponsible. Same as the US. If they do not have the money to fund their projects, those projects should be cut.

    ~Bonita~

  5. #205
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I think of a debt ceiling as like a credit card limit. It is very foolish, IMO, to have no limit on borrowing. In my personal finances if I just spent whatever I wanted to without having the money to back it up that would be very irresponsible. Same as the US. If they do not have the money to fund their projects, those projects should be cut.
    Well, only the US and Denmark actually have a debt ceiling, and looking at debt alone without looking at GDP and their ratio to each other is short sighted. Sure the US has 17 trillion in debt, but you're also the largest economy in the world. Why do you think the rest of the world holds its breath with the US has a financial crisis/recession/bailout/shutdown/etc? Because it directly impacts just about every other economy. The US probably produces annually what it's in debt for. No other country has a GDP like the US.

  6. #206
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    The U.S. national debt is now about 73% of gross domestic product, the Congressional Budget Office said Tuesday. The percentage of debt is higher than any point since around World War II, and twice the percentage it was at the end of 2007, the nonpartisan agency said in its long-term budget outlook. If current laws stay in place, debt will decline "slightly" relative to GDP over the next few years, the agency said. But it warned that growing future deficits will push the debt to 100% of GDP 25 years from now.
    U.S. debt now about 73% of GDP, CBO says - MarketWatch



    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24541140
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 10-17-2013 at 04:11 PM.
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  7. #207
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Gloria, it is the same for many countries after 2008. It is not an Obama thing, it is a recession thing.

  8. #208
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    Gloria, it is the same for many countries after 2008. It is not an Obama thing, it is a recession thing.
    Sorry I don't think creating a massive new entitlement program is going to help us out of it.
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
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    Granddaughters Kylie 10/18/2010 & Aleya 4/22/2013


    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

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