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  1. #21
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Kim & Alissa are doing a much better job of controlling their rage than I am. I've started writing a few things and had to delete them all because I'm just so ****ing pissed off with Republicans and TPers (better word for them IMHO and also exactly what I'd like to use them for) for putting us in this mess. Over $95 a year for people who don't want to buy insurance, which everyone *should* have anyway. ****ing bunch of nutjobs.
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    Wow. I was only gone for a few hours and there are already 3 pages.

    I am frustrated with both sides. Neither side is willing to sit down work it out and move on. I do believe the Administration is not without guilt in this, and neither are the Republicans.

    Two of my BIL's and one of my friends husband are furlowed today because of this situation. Two of them are not in a situation where they can just go without getting paid. It will really hurt all of them. I can not imagine the families that are on WIC and depend on it for formula for their babies.

    In my mind I am thinking of two siblings looking at eachother with disgust and hatred. Both needing to learn to get along and live together but neither one willing to budge an inch. You would think, the President would be like a parent in the situation and come and have everyone sit down and work it out, but that is not happening either.

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  3. #23
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    I am angry about the shut down too, but I can be angry with the republicans. The majority of Americans do not want the ACA to be law, the republicans are doing what their constituency wants. I think there is a lot of politics playing into this as well, but that is on both sides
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I just wanted to mention that the main part of the law (the individual mandate) that we're all arguing about and the government got shut down over has a $95 fine. In other words, if you don't get the insurance, the only thing that happens is that you have to pay a fine of $95 per year. Also, people who can't find affordable insurance policies (granted, affordable as defined by the government) are exempt. So to recap, the Republicans/Tea Partiers shut down the government over a possible $95 per year fine that wouldn't apply to people who can't find affordable policies anyway. True story.
    Right. It is all about the people who don't want to buy insurance and had nothing to do with the thousands of people with premiums that are doubling or tripling in cost for less coverage because they want to keep their coverage like Obama promised and don't want to be forced onto the exchanges.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom3girls View Post
    I am angry about the shut down too, but I can be angry with the republicans. The majority of Americans do not want the ACA to be law, the republicans are doing what their constituency wants. I think there is a lot of politics playing into this as well, but that is on both sides
    Exactly. People still do not want Obamacare, just as when the Democrats passed it. It is being forced upon us.

    52% of Americans disapprove of Obamacare.
    More Americans Disapprove of the Affordable Care Act

    44% say it will make healthcare in America worse.
    More in U.S. Say Health Law Effect Will Be Negative Than Positive

    Its not like other means have not been tried. What are the supposed to do when the Democrats won't listen to the people they are supposed to be governed by?

    In Congress, the GOP has voted more than 40 times to repeal, defund or dismantle ObamaCare, and states run by Republicans have often worked against the administration to undermine the law's rollout.
    Read more: Disapproval of ObamaCare reaches new high, poll finds - The Hill's Healthwatch
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  6. #26
    Posting Addict Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Right. It is all about the people who don't want to buy insurance and had nothing to do with the thousands of people with premiums that are doubling or tripling in cost for less coverage because they want to keep their coverage like Obama promised and don't want to be forced onto the exchanges.
    We are debating the government shut down. The Republicans are holding the government hostage over the individual mandate. They are a refusing to send the Senate a bill that doesn't delay the individual mandate. The consequence of not complying with the individual mandate is a $95 fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Exactly. People still do not want Obamacare, just as when the Democrats passed it. It is being forced upon us.

    52% of Americans disapprove of Obamacare.
    More Americans Disapprove of the Affordable Care Act

    44% say it will make healthcare in America worse.
    More in U.S. Say Health Law Effect Will Be Negative Than Positive

    Its not like other means have not been tried. What are the supposed to do when the Democrats won't listen to the people they are supposed to be governed by?


    Read more: Disapproval of ObamaCare reaches new high, poll finds - The Hill's Healthwatch
    I think it's Republicans that aren't listening to the people.

    New Poll: Only One-Third Of Americans Support Repealing, Defunding Or Delaying Obamacare - Forbes

    Polls consistently show that Americans aren’t happy with Obamacare. They think the law will make health care more expensive, and decrease its quality. But a new survey of 1,976 registered voters finds that only 33 percent believe that the health law should be repealed, delayed, or defunded. 29 percent believe that “Congress should make changes to improve the law,” 26 percent believe that “Congress should let the law take effect” and see what happens, and 12 percent believe that the law should be expanded. The bottom line? Voters are skeptical that Obamacare will live up to Democrats’ hype. But they also believe that it should be given a chance to succeed.

    The new poll was conducted by the Morning Consult, a healthcare media company founded by Michael Ramlet. Ramlet, in evaluating the results of his survey, finds that voters are “unmoved by three months of the defund argument,” and that a majority would “blame congressional Republicans a lot for a government shutdown.”

    Americans oppose risking a government shutdown
    Here are the numbers. 26 percent of the respondents identified as Republicans, compared to 42 percent Democrats and 31 percent independents. (This compares to a spread of 22 R / 31 D / 45 I in the most recent Gallup tracking poll.)
    Ramlet asked: “If your Member of Congress supports efforts to defund the 2010 healthcare law, and the efforts lead to a government shutdown, would that make you more likely, or less likely, to vote for this legislator in the next election?” 42 percent of voters said “less likely,” 30 percent said “more likely,” and 28 percent said “no difference.” Among independents, the breakdown was 44-28-28, respectively; among whites, it was 41-32-27; among Hispanics, 46-34-21.

    Voters would blame “Republicans in Congress if the current budget dispute leads to a government shutdown starting October 1.” 51 percent would blame them “a lot,” 21 percent “some,” and 17 percent “a little.” Only 12 percent would assign no blame to Republicans. But voters would also blame President Obama for a shutdown, albeit by slimmer margins: 41 percent “a lot,” 15 percent “some,” and 18 percent “a little.” For Congressional Democrats, the numbers were 36 percent “a lot,” 24 percent “some,” and 23 percent “a little.”

    Voters believe, by a margin of 66-33, that the 2012 election “represented a referendum on moving forward with implementation of the 2010 health care law.” 24 percent strongly agreed with that sentence; 42 percent somewhat did; 17 percent somewhat disagreed; and 16 percent strongly disagreed.

    Voters are skeptical of the law’s promises
    Most polls show that voters disapprove of the 2010 health care law by significant margins. The Morning Consult’s poll did not. 46 percent of voters strongly or somewhat disapproved of “the health care legislation passed by Barack Obama and Congress in 2010,” whereas 48 percent somewhat or strongly approved. (The disapproval was more heartfelt; 32 percent strongly disapproved, whereas only 21 percent strongly approved.)

    On the other hand, voters are deeply skeptical of the law’s promises to make health care more affordable. 57 percent believe that it will make health care “much more” or “somewhat more” expensive, whereas only 15 percent believe it will make health care “much less” or “somewhat less” expensive. 37 percent believe that the law will negatively affect the “availability of medical benefits,” whereas 23 percent believe it will improve access. 37 percent believe that the law will negatively affect “the quality of the medical care you receive,” whereas 20 percent believe it will improve it.

    Two-thirds of voters want to give the law a chance to succeed
    While voters are skeptical that the law will benefit them, they don’t agree with conservatives who say that it represents an existential threat to America. Only 26 percent of voters believe that “Congress should repeal the law,” and only 7 percent believe that “Congress should delay and defund the law.”

    On the other hand, 29 percent believe that “Congress should make changes to improve the law.” 26 percent believe that “Congress should let the law take effect.” And 12 percent believe that “Congress should expand the law.”

    33 percent of voters overall support repealing, defunding or delaying Obamacare. 65 percent of Republicans feel that way, compared to 37 percent of independents and 10 percent of Democrats. 18 percent of Hispanics support repeal, defund, or delay. Americans over the age of 65 are most strongly opposed to the law, with younger voters most supportive.

    Have anti-Obamacare activists misread the public?
    As you go through the Morning Consult report, this general attitude becomes clear. The public is deeply skeptical that Obamacare will make their lives better. Indeed, they largely believe that it will make health care more costly and less efficient. But they don’t view the law in the apocalyptic terms that many conservatives do. “The American people overwhelmingly reject Obamacare,” says Texas Sen. Ted Cruz. That may be, but neither do they support shutting down the government in order to repeal it.

    Ted Cruz believes that Obamacare must be stopped now, because if it isn’t, the law just might become popular. But the irony is that Cruz may have it exactly wrong. If the public is right, that Obamacare will make health care worse rather than better, the law may become less popular over time. Either way, what the public wants above all else is for Republicans to propose legislation that will make the health care system better.

    During Sen. Cruz’s 21-hour marathon speech on the Senate floor, he rightly cited many of the flaws and problems with our new health care law. But notably missing from his remarks was any attempt to address the real problems with our health care system, problems that conservative activists have neglected for 70-odd years. If Sen. Cruz cares about the sentiments of the American people as much as he says he does, he would be well served to consider that fact.
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  8. #28
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    We are debating the government shut down. The Republicans are holding the government hostage over the individual mandate. They are a refusing to send the Senate a bill that doesn't delay the individual mandate. The consequence of not complying with the individual mandate is a $95 fine.
    While I do not agree with using everyday American's lives as a bargaining chip, Republicans are trying to force Democrats to get rid of Obamacare. Just like Democrats tried to force Republicans to except it. This is the problem you have when you try to force a program that is not unilaterally accepted. Some of those republicans were voted in solely on the platform of getting rid of Obamacare. They are doing what they were voted in to do. That said, I do think it is rotten on both parts to think it is ok to gamble with the American people. A shut down should not have been on the table.

    ~Bonita~

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    Double Post

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