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  1. #31
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    We are debating the government shut down. The Republicans are holding the government hostage over the individual mandate. They are a refusing to send the Senate a bill that doesn't delay the individual mandate. The consequence of not complying with the individual mandate is a $95 fine.
    It didn't start out that way. They have asked for less each bill that has been passed in an attempt to compromise. What compromise have the Democrats even attempted to make? They won't even back down on the special subsidies put in place just for them. If it comes down to just the subsidies that Congress passed for themselves so they won't have to pay for Obamacare, will it still be the fault of the GOP?

    The high-stakes legislative back-and-forth lasted for several days. The House first passed a funding bill two weeks ago, which defunded the health care law. The Senate responded by changing the legislation to fully fund the law. The House then passed several versions of its own bill to keep the fund the government — but with several caveats: first, defunding Obamacare; then a full year delay of Obamacare and a repeal of the medical device tax; then, a delay of Obamacare’s individual mandate and the cancelation of health-insurance subsidies for Capitol Hill lawmakers, aides and administration employees. The Senate dismissed each attempt.
    Read more: Government shutdown 2013 - POLITICO.com
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  2. #32
    Posting Addict Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    While I do not agree with using everyday American's lives as a bargaining chip, Republicans are trying to force Democrats to get rid of Obamacare. Just like Democrats tried to force Republicans to except it. This is the problem you have when you try to force a program that is not unilaterally accepted. Some of those republicans were voted in solely on the platform of getting rid of Obamacare. They are doing what they were voted in to do. That said, I do think it is rotten on both parts to think it is ok to gamble with the American people. A shut down should not have been on the table.
    I don't recall Democrats ever saying they would shut down the government unless we got Obamacare. If we were going to go hog wild like that I wish we would have gone for the full Monty and done single payer instead of fooling around with this used-to-be-a-Conservative-plan-before-OH-NOES-OBAMA-SAID-IT-SO-IT-MUST-BE-EVIL!!!!
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  3. #33
    Posting Addict Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    It didn't start out that way. They have asked for less each bill that has been passed in an attempt to compromise. What compromise have the Democrats even attempted to make? They won't even back down on the special subsidies put in place just for them. If it comes down to just the subsidies that Congress passed for themselves so they won't have to pay for Obamacare, will it still be the fault of the GOP?



    Read more: Government shutdown 2013 - POLITICO.com
    The individual mandate was the deal last night before the shut down. They could have backed out of it before midnight and not shut down the government. They didn't.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    hippocampus
    Ha ha.

  5. #35
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    The individual mandate was the deal last night before the shut down. They could have backed out of it before midnight and not shut down the government. They didn't.
    Maybe because they knew it wouldn't be the end of the world like everyone thinks. All essential services will continue like always. You didn't answer the question. If it comes down to the subsidy that Congress passed for themselves will it still be the GOP's fault?

    And it still goes both ways. If the Individual Mandate is not such a big deal why didn't they just pass that bill so the government wouldn't have shut down?
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 10-01-2013 at 04:36 PM.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    We are debating the government shut down.
    Maybe not over this issue, but democrats are no stranger to threatening a Government shut down.

    Democrats Threaten Government Shutdown | FreedomWorks
    The American Spectator : The Spectacle Blog : Democrat Senators Threaten Government Shutdown
    Daily Kos: Rubio: "Obama is threatening to shut down the government unless we fund Obamacare"


    The difference, is that with the threat of a Government shutdown, they worked hard to find a compromise so it would not happen.

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  7. #37
    Posting Addict Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Maybe because they knew it wouldn't be the end of the world like everyone thinks. All essential services will continue like always. You didn't answer the question. If it comes down to the subsidy that Congress passed for themselves will it still be the GOP's fault?

    And it still goes both ways. If the Individual Mandate is not such a big deal why didn't they just pass that bill so the government wouldn't have shut down?
    To the bolded - I don't know. I haven't read much about the subsidy. It seems far fetched, but if there is some plausible reason why it won't work without that then yes, I would blame the GOP. If there is not, then no, at that point I would blame the Senate Democrats for refusing to compromise.

    As I said before, the mandate is a big deal because it encourages everyone to get healthcare, and we need everyone to buy in or else the insurance companies will implode and then we'll REALLY be up &%*$creek. But the reality is, there isn't a huge penalty for not complying. That's why freaking out and shutting down the government is so completely ridiculous and ham fisted. If people really hate Obamacare and don't want to buy in, they'll pay the $95 and it will fail and the Republicans can say "We told you so." At this point it's like they just have to have some sort of symbolic win to undermine Obamacare somehow so they can say that they did it. Lame.

    And it's a pretty big deal to the Americans that aren't getting a paycheck because of it. Also, I think I read somewhere that it costs $300MM to shut down and restart the government. Plus the loss of confidence on Wall Street. It's not the end of the world but it's still a crappy thing to do.

    Bonta, regarding the 1995 govt shut down (I glanced through your links, I am assuming that's what you're referring to?)

    Looking back at the 1995 and 1996 government shutdowns, the public seemed to have made up its mind about fault: Far more said they blamed the shutdown on the GOP than on President Bill Clinton. When all was said and done, though, the shutdown had little impact on the nation’s political picture.
    DIGITS: Facing deadline for government shutdown, most Americans prefer compromise - The Washington Post
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    If people really hate Obamacare and don't want to buy in, they'll pay the $95 and it will fail and the Republicans can say "We told you so."
    It is not true to say that if you do not want to participate, then don't. There will no longer be any insurance other than the exchanges through DH's work. The good insurance that we already had is going away, forcing us to have the new insurance. Whatever else happens, saying "If you like your current insurance then you can keep it" was a big fat lie.

    ~Bonita~

  9. #39
    Posting Addict Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    It is not true to say that if you do not want to participate, then don't. There will no longer be any insurance other than the exchanges through DH's work. The good insurance that we already had is going away, forcing us to have the new insurance. Whatever else happens, saying "If you like your current insurance then you can keep it" was a big fat lie.
    I'm confused about that Bonita - does your husband work part time or something? If you already want and have insurance than the individual mandate (which just says that you have to have insurance) shouldn't even affect you.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I'm confused about that Bonita - does your husband work part time or something? If you already want and have insurance than the individual mandate (which just says that you have to have insurance) shouldn't even affect you.
    No, he is a full time employee. He works in a school system in GA. There will no longer be insurance like we had before. Everyone will have to have Obamacare, only the school will contribute to it so it will not cost as much as if he did not work full time.

    ~Bonita~

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