Superintendent or Step-mom?

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Superintendent or Step-mom?
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I think it's insane that this even made news. They aren't telling her she can't go, just that she won't be paid. AND people have offered to pay her for the time off and started trying to collect donations. I understand the personal sacrifice their family made, but he's coming back to his regular duty station which means that he's fine and doesn't need his mom to pick him and his dad up from the airport. I honestly can't believe they keep saying that the school gave another employee extra days when their house burned down like it's the same thing. She's part of a union, she has to abide by the contract they made.

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I agree. If she really wants to go she could take unpaid leave, they already paid the vacation time for her to go see him once. My son just got home and if I was in the same situation I wouldn't expect my company to give me extra paid vacation days if I had already used them up.

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Wow! That smacks of entitlement. You've used all your time, the rest is unpaid. FMLA covers her situation (based on the limited details) but that is also unpaid. Not sure if she could really get stress leave or not, but if her sick days are used up, I don't think that is paid either.

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What really gets me is she's trying to make it sound like she did them a favor. Instead of taking months off with a disability claim for emotional distress (having a hard time processing that it's a possibility in this situation), she'd rather just ask for more paid time off. The comments are insane. What really bothers me is that her son's picture has been plastered everywhere in his uniform. That wouldn't be OK with me and I"m wondering how he feels about it. He's already going through a lot right now, the *last* thing I would want in that situation would be the media.

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Agreed. She sounds entitled and I'm not very sympathetic to her cause......she can take unpaid time off like everyone else.

It ASTOUNDS me that teachers even get NINE days of personal leave each year. I think that is ridiculous. On top of the many many many days they get off anyways? Silly! Take your personal time over your 2 1/2 week winter break, your week long spring break, your 5 day Thanksgiving holiday or over the summer. I used to be a teacher, but I think they many of them have an unrealistic view of what "normal" people work. Nevermind the umpteen random holidays they get off.....

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"boilermaker" wrote:

It ASTOUNDS me that teachers even get NINE days of personal leave each year. I think that is ridiculous. On top of the many many many days they get off anyways? Silly! Take your personal time over your 2 1/2 week winter break, your week long spring break, your 5 day Thanksgiving holiday or over the summer. I used to be a teacher, but I think they many of them have an unrealistic view of what "normal" people work. Nevermind the umpteen random holidays they get off.....

While I agree the time should not be paid time off once she has used her time off, teachers or other school staff can not always plan their time off during scheduled school breaks. Should they never be able to take a day off to go to a wedding or funeral unless it is during the summer?

DH is an interpreter in the school system. He is salary, but his pay is based on how many days he works. Any time they do not work due to snow or anything when the school closes down they have to make up that day at the end of the year. GA has furlowed 5 days each of the last two years to make up budget cuts. He is not payed for those days. If DH worked his same job, but not in a school system so he worked year round he would make about $15,000 more per year.

Also, many jobs get just as much sick/vacation time as teachers just spread out over the course of the year. My mother is a nurse and she gets just as much time off as my DH per year. The only difference is that she can take the time off whenever she wants as long as she puts in for it far enough in advance and no one with more seniority asked for it off first.

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This also does not take into account that many teachers spend countless hours grading papers, doing lesson plans, going to football /basketball games, chaperoning prom and other such things all on time outside of their normal job hours.

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"boilermaker" wrote:

Agreed. She sounds entitled and I'm not very sympathetic to her cause......she can take unpaid time off like everyone else.

It ASTOUNDS me that teachers even get NINE days of personal leave each year. I think that is ridiculous. On top of the many many many days they get off anyways? Silly! Take your personal time over your 2 1/2 week winter break, your week long spring break, your 5 day Thanksgiving holiday or over the summer. I used to be a teacher, but I think they many of them have an unrealistic view of what "normal" people work. Nevermind the umpteen random holidays they get off.....

Should those who work M-F be told to take their personal time over the weekend since they have that time off anyway? Should she tell her stepson that he needs to postpone his return until spring break?

There is no difference between our sick days and our PN days. I've taken days off to take my kids to the doctor, dentist, and because I was sick. I've also taken days off to see my children get awards, promote from 6th grade and 8th grade.

Like I said though, she's out of time, it should be unpaid like the rest of us.

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I'm not saying that teachers don't need some sick days or a few personal days each year. But NINE? Really? That is a day each month that they are teaching. Most employees are lucky to get 10 days/year.

Here's a good article IMO:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203687504576655352353046120.html

Bonita-- I find it hard to believe that a full time nursing employee gets as much time off as a teacher/school employee. Most schools are required to offer instruction for 180 days. I'll give you that teachers/administrators work some days beyond instruction-- but by my math 180 days is about 36 five day weeks-- leaving another 16 not working. I don't know any job that offers nearly 4 months of vacation to most employees.....that's be like getting 80 vacation days/year. Or maybe only 70 vacation days/year with 10 "holidays". I have very very generous leave where we earn 2 days/month-- and that is far outside of the "norm". Is my math off?

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Your math is off a tad. We have teacher work days/student holidays that you didn't account for. My district has 10 scheduled work days this year so that is an additional 2 weeks.

I agree that teachers get a ton of time off, and for that I am thankful. But I don't consider giving an additional few days (in my district it is 10 for sick/personal but only 4 can be used as personal) to be over the top. Teachers get sick too, and so do our children. Our loved ones pass away and fly in from out of town to visit. Our kids have special programs at school that we like to attend. I'm sure you get my point.

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"boilermaker" wrote:

Bonita-- I find it hard to believe that a full time nursing employee gets as much time off as a teacher/school employee. Most schools are required to offer instruction for 180 days. I'll give you that teachers/administrators work some days beyond instruction-- but by my math 180 days is about 36 five day weeks-- leaving another 16 not working. I don't know any job that offers nearly 4 months of vacation to most employees.....that's be like getting 80 vacation days/year. Or maybe only 70 vacation days/year with 10 "holidays". I have very very generous leave where we earn 2 days/month-- and that is far outside of the "norm". Is my math off?

My mother has worked at her job a long time and has built up time over the years. I believe she has about 6 months of time built up.

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Okay-- add 2 more working weeks....so 190 days.

I guess most teachers only get 3 months and 2 weeks off/year. But if you get 10 days of personal/sick, doesn't that bounce it back down to 180 days you have to work.

Look, I know my position isn't popular. I'm okay with that. And I'm not suggesting that teachers don't need sick days or a few days off/year to deal with other stuff. It is just hard for me to be all that sympathetic to this woman in the article or others who whine about how "overworked" and "underpaid" teachers are. I'm not buying it and the data doesn't support it.....

The 10 combined sick/personal days seems much more reasonable to me.....still generous, but not as crazy at 10 personal days/year.

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But Bonita-- just bc she has "saved" up 6 months, doesn't mean she EARNS 6 months off/year-- right?

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"boilermaker" wrote:

But Bonita-- just bc she has "saved" up 6 months, doesn't mean she EARNS 6 months off/year-- right?

I will have to ask her how much she gets off a year. I do not remember at the top of my head. It is a lot though.

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"boilermaker" wrote:

Okay-- add 2 more working weeks....so 190 days.

I guess most teachers only get 3 months and 2 weeks off/year. But if you get 10 days of personal/sick, doesn't that bounce it back down to 180 days you have to work.

Look, I know my position isn't popular. I'm okay with that. And I'm not suggesting that teachers don't need sick days or a few days off/year to deal with other stuff. It is just hard for me to be all that sympathetic to this woman in the article or others who whine about how "overworked" and "underpaid" teachers are. I'm not buying it and the data doesn't support it.....

The 10 combined sick/personal days seems much more reasonable to me.....still generous, but not as crazy at 10 personal days/year.

And just because we get 10 extra days a year doesn't mean we use them.

And teachers are incredibly overworked and terribly underpaid. Regardless of the case of this whiny woman that wants to be paid to go visit her son (I happen to agree with the Superintendent on this one), teachers are undervalued and under-appreciated. I don't care what your data says.....I live it every day.

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Did you read that WSJ article? Just curious.

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Actually I did, and IMO it was a pretty crappy article. First of all, I'd have to say "duh" that most teachers major in education (I didn't, but many do). It is absolutely comparable to any other 4 year degree and the internship that most schools require is quite demanding and rigorous. Their opinion that education is an easy field of study is simply that - an opinion. And perhaps education majors make higher grades on average (not sure where they got that data from but I'll roll with it) because they value education and the process. Just my opinion....

I don't get retiree health coverage, my pension is far from guaranteed, and my ability to earn additional income can't be counted as income for my current position as an educator. I'd love to go on about this ridiculous article but we're leaving for church soon.

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"boilermaker" wrote:

Okay-- add 2 more working weeks....so 190 days.

I guess most teachers only get 3 months and 2 weeks off/year. But if you get 10 days of personal/sick, doesn't that bounce it back down to 180 days you have to work.

Look, I know my position isn't popular. I'm okay with that. And I'm not suggesting that teachers don't need sick days or a few days off/year to deal with other stuff. It is just hard for me to be all that sympathetic to this woman in the article or others who whine about how "overworked" and "underpaid" teachers are. I'm not buying it and the data doesn't support it.....

The 10 combined sick/personal days seems much more reasonable to me.....still generous, but not as crazy at 10 personal days/year.

I can only speak for CA, but do you know how the 1 day a month sick time came about? It had to do with the fact that the majority in the profession were women. Thus, 1 day off a month coincided with women's monthly cycles.

My friend earns the equivelant of 1.5 sick time per month. If the standard in "normal" professions is 2 weeks paid vacation per year, that would be 10 days a year. It's not all that far off from a teacher's.

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But teachers only work for 9 months out of the year- so I'd expect them to get the equivalent of 9/12's the "average" of an employee who works year round--kwim?

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"boilermaker" wrote:

But teachers only work for 9 months out of the year- so I'd expect them to get the equivalent of 9/12's the "average" of an employee who works year round--kwim?

I'm with you Audra, it is an unpopular position but you are not alone Smile

The other thing that shocks me about the pay is that it isn't some well guarded secret. SAlaries are PUBLIC! So anyone who chooses a career in which they 100% know the salary before they enter it, then complains about the salary, baffles me.

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"boilermaker" wrote:

Did you read that WSJ article? Just curious.

I read the article and I disagree with it (at least for those teachers entering the profession in the last 10 years) on the basis that there is very little job security because contracts are usually only given for a year or less at a time now. Most positions available are also only part time and a new teacher has to work her way up in a school to gain full time employment. They do this so they don't have to give all those benefits that are talked about in the article.

This may be the way it is for teachers who entered the profession 20 years ago and were given a continuing contract at the get go. But it certainly doesn't happen this way now, at least in BC. Continuing contracts are rarely given (unless you have a rare specialty) and so you don't get all these benefits and job security anymore.

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My sister is a teacher. Her entry level salary (before she got her masters) was 44K. She taught for 3 years, getting tuition reimbursement (a percentage) to obtain her masters. She worked one day (in service) of her 4th year, making her tenured. She is out on maternity leave now, her position is GUARANTEED for a year and a half. That is pretty flippin nice.

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"boilermaker" wrote:

But teachers only work for 9 months out of the year- so I'd expect them to get the equivalent of 9/12's the "average" of an employee who works year round--kwim?

I disagree simply because I belive an important part of a teachers job is having the respect of their students and parents. And there are very few jobs that will take someone who can only work for a few month. These would be service and labor jobs. I just dont think a teacher would receive the same respect if they were forced to serve their students McDonalds over the summer.

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"Potter75" wrote:

I'm with you Audra, it is an unpopular position but you are not alone Smile

The other thing that shocks me about the pay is that it isn't some well guarded secret. SAlaries are PUBLIC! So anyone who chooses a career in which they 100% know the salary before they enter it, then complains about the salary, baffles me.

My problem isnt with the salary, but with the underhanded way that districts string teachers along without benefits or job security. They sure dont advertise that.

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That is nice:) Sure doesnt happen that way here. Except the maternity leave...but we get a year regardless of what we do for a living.

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I can't speak about the Canadian system-- but the US unions have negotiated some pretty sweet deals IMO.....

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This was supposed to be quoting Melissa's post about beginning teachers making $44K. Don't know what happened...

I'm fairly sure that salary is not typical for beginning teachers; it isn't in my state. Your area of the state and country have exceedingly well-paid and well-benefitted teaching positions. The state is known for their teacher benefits.

While the other benefits are great, that doesn't negate the crappy things. You can't tell someone they shouldn't complain about their drafty house because they should just be happy they have a house. It would be silly to tell someone who is frustrated by car troubles that they should just forget it because their car is still running. Everyone has really great things about their job and really annoying things.

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"boilermaker" wrote:

I'm not saying that teachers don't need some sick days or a few personal days each year. But NINE? Really? That is a day each month that they are teaching. Most employees are lucky to get 10 days/year.

Here's a good article IMO:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203687504576655352353046120.html

Bonita-- I find it hard to believe that a full time nursing employee gets as much time off as a teacher/school employee. Most schools are required to offer instruction for 180 days. I'll give you that teachers/administrators work some days beyond instruction-- but by my math 180 days is about 36 five day weeks-- leaving another 16 not working. I don't know any job that offers nearly 4 months of vacation to most employees.....that's be like getting 80 vacation days/year. Or maybe only 70 vacation days/year with 10 "holidays". I have very very generous leave where we earn 2 days/month-- and that is far outside of the "norm". Is my math off?

Are you counting Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, New Years' Day as part of your leave time? 'Cause you're counting it in ours. And, you can't say we only deserve 9/12ths pay/benefits and then also declare that 3/12 of the year is vacation. If we're only being compensated for 9/12 of the year, then I guess the other 3/12 of the year is ours to call what we want.

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Oh, forgot to respond to the OP! She used her allotted days already, so she should not be compensated for extras. That's what the contract is for. That's life.

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"b525" wrote:

Are you counting Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day, New Years' Day as part of your leave time? 'Cause you're counting it in ours. And, you can't say we only deserve 9/12ths pay/benefits and then also declare that 3/12 of the year is vacation. If we're only being compensated for 9/12 of the year, then I guess the other 3/12 of the year is ours to call what we want.

Huh? I'm not sure how to respond to you. By my math, teachers work an average of about 190 days/year, right? That is assuming that you don't use any of your other leave-- I'm just counting the days that you are in school and "working". Your salary is for the year. Or, if you prefer, we could say that your salary is for your 9 months of work. Either way, you are making $X/year from teaching.

What do you call the 3/12's of the year you aren't working? Unemployed? Vacation? I'm not sure where you are going with this.....

I'm just saying that you work for less time than the average US employee and that IMO you are compensated fairly for it (again, IMO.)

And yes, I'm including that in the "leave time" most people get. I get 10 holidays/year-- New Years, MLK Jr. Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, 2 days for Thanksgiving and 3 days for Christmas. My 10 holidays/year are more than most get in their positions IME.

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"boilermaker" wrote:

Huh? I'm not sure how to respond to you. By my math, teachers work an average of about 190 days/year, right? That is assuming that you don't use any of your other leave-- I'm just counting the days that you are in school and "working". Your salary is for the year. Or, if you prefer, we could say that your salary is for your 9 months of work. Either way, you are making $X/year from teaching.

What do you call the 3/12's of the year you aren't working? Unemployed? Vacation? I'm not sure where you are going with this.....

I'm just saying that you work for less time than the average US employee and that IMO you are compensated fairly for it (again, IMO.)

And yes, I'm including that in the "leave time" most people get. I get 10 holidays/year-- New Years, MLK Jr. Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, 2 days for Thanksgiving and 3 days for Christmas. My 10 holidays/year are more than most get in their positions IME.

I work 10 months out of the year and get paid for 10 months' worth of work. My checks are spread out over 12 months.

Other professions have different non-traditional work schedules so I'm not sure why teaching is always such an issue. Firefighters might only work 10 days a month; pilots average about 22 hours a week. How much PN/sick time should people in those professions get?

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Dh and I are both teachers, and we both think that teachers get to many days off. But we both worked in the private sector before, as well as owning part of a business so maybe we have a different view on it. We went into teaching knowing full well that the pay would not be great and that we wouldnt be able to advance very much, but those were sacrifices we both were willing to make.
Dh works during a lot of the summer, that is how we pay our kids tuition to the private school they go to.
I work at a private school and we get 10 days off a year, but only 3 can be used for personal days. Those do not roll over every year either, and we cant cash out on them if we dont use them

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"boilermaker" wrote:

Huh? I'm not sure how to respond to you. By my math, teachers work an average of about 190 days/year, right? That is assuming that you don't use any of your other leave-- I'm just counting the days that you are in school and "working". Your salary is for the year. Or, if you prefer, we could say that your salary is for your 9 months of work. Either way, you are making $X/year from teaching.

What do you call the 3/12's of the year you aren't working? Unemployed? Vacation? I'm not sure where you are going with this.....

I'm just saying that you work for less time than the average US employee and that IMO you are compensated fairly for it (again, IMO.)

And yes, I'm including that in the "leave time" most people get. I get 10 holidays/year-- New Years, MLK Jr. Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, 2 days for Thanksgiving and 3 days for Christmas. My 10 holidays/year are more than most get in their positions IME.

Earlier, you said that teachers really should only get 9/12 of the amount of leave time that other people get, since we only work 9/12 of the year. If we only deserve that much leave time, then I guess our salary is for 9/12 of the year, too (however, we're actually considered 10-month employees, too, like ethanwinfield). If that's the case, then the 3 months can't really be considered vacation time. It's arguing both sides to say that our benefits are more than adequate for "9 month employees" AND to say that we have three months of vacation.

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"ethanwinfield" wrote:

I work 10 months out of the year and get paid for 10 months' worth of work. My checks are spread out over 12 months.

Other professions have different non-traditional work schedules so I'm not sure why teaching is always such an issue. Firefighters might only work 10 days a month; pilots average about 22 hours a week. How much PN/sick time should people in those professions get?

Yes, I've often wondered this myself. Everyone has benefits to their jobs. I don't go around lambasting people who have the flexibility to adjust their start or end time. I don't yell about people who are able to switch shifts to meet the needs of their families on a particular day.

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"Potter75" wrote:

My sister is a teacher. Her entry level salary (before she got her masters) was 44K. She taught for 3 years, getting tuition reimbursement (a percentage) to obtain her masters. She worked one day (in service) of her 4th year, making her tenured. She is out on maternity leave now, her position is GUARANTEED for a year and a half. That is pretty flippin nice.

When I started at my job teachers were getting yearly step increases, free health coverage, and our pension was payed by our employer. Since then (I've been teaching for almost 7 years) I've gotten 1 step increase, I now have to pay for my health coverage, and I am forced to pay a percentage of my salary into the FRS (of which there is no guarantee I'll receive when I retire). So yes, I knew what the starting salary was, but I had no idea that my pay would be frozen, health coverage robbed, and salary jerked around. And I can promise you that I don't make anywhere near $44K, lol!

As for tenure.....in my district you don't earn that by putting in X amount of years. You are offered a professional contract when your administrator feels you deserve it.

Your sister is pretty flippin lucky and I hope you realize that isn't the norm.

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"Alana*sMommy" wrote:

When I started at my job teachers were getting yearly step increases, free health coverage, and our pension was payed by our employer. Since then (I've been teaching for almost 7 years) I've gotten 1 step increase, I now have to pay for my health coverage, and I am forced to pay a percentage of my salary into the FRS (of which there is no guarantee I'll receive when I retire). So yes, I knew what the starting salary was, but I had no idea that my pay would be frozen, health coverage robbed, and salary jerked around. And I can promise you that I don't make anywhere near $44K, lol!

As for tenure.....in my district you don't earn that by putting in X amount of years. You are offered a professional contract when your administrator feels you deserve it.

Your sister is pretty flippin lucky and I hope you realize that isn't the norm.

This is also the case where DH works. Step increases that were promised to him when he was hired have been frozen for 4 years. Furlow days have been given every year reducing everyone's pay, and health insurance costs have gone up. Do not misunderstand, he loves his job but it is unreasonable to think he should not get any personal days just because he gets the summer off.

I asked him and he gets 3 personal days per year in addition to sick time.

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"b525" wrote:

This was supposed to be quoting Melissa's post about beginning teachers making $44K. Don't know what happened...

I'm fairly sure that salary is not typical for beginning teachers; it isn't in my state. Your area of the state and country have exceedingly well-paid and well-benefitted teaching positions. The state is known for their teacher benefits.

While the other benefits are great, that doesn't negate the crappy things. You can't tell someone they shouldn't complain about their drafty house because they should just be happy they have a house. It would be silly to tell someone who is frustrated by car troubles that they should just forget it because their car is still running. Everyone has really great things about their job and really annoying things.

No doubt! And of course anyone is welcome to complain about their job. Just like others are welcome to remind them that their job isn't really all that bad by the numbers Smile

I don't know about other parts of the country, I can only speak for what I have seen firsthand between my sis and my BIL. It is a good gig, here, no doubt. My area may be very well paid, but it is also expensive.

According to a 2007 estimate, the median income for a household in the township was $86,812, and the median income for a family was $113,601.

Put into perspective the numbers aren't what they might be elsewhere.

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Is the $86,812 per person or per couple?

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"Alana*sMommy" wrote:

When I started at my job teachers were getting yearly step increases, free health coverage, and our pension was payed by our employer. Since then (I've been teaching for almost 7 years) I've gotten 1 step increase, I now have to pay for my health coverage, and I am forced to pay a percentage of my salary into the FRS (of which there is no guarantee I'll receive when I retire). So yes, I knew what the starting salary was, but I had no idea that my pay would be frozen, health coverage robbed, and salary jerked around. And I can promise you that I don't make anywhere near $44K, lol!

As for tenure.....in my district you don't earn that by putting in X amount of years. You are offered a professional contract when your administrator feels you deserve it.

Your sister is pretty flippin lucky and I hope you realize that isn't the norm.

I'm sorry you haven't had any step increases-- but you do realize that the economy has pretty much been in the can for the last few years. Many of the folks that I know in the private sector (those that still have jobs....) have taken up to 25% pay cuts to keep their companies afloat. We've all had to pay more into healthcare and most of us have always been required to pitch in for our retirement....

Again, compared with what most in the private sector are doing, it is hard to be very sympathetic to the "plight" of "underpaid" teachers-- at least IMO.

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Exactly, Audra. My husband made significantly less last year than the year before, thanks to the economy and our craptastic federal funding in certain arenas. Is that fair? No. Is that life? Yes. I'm a little unsympathetic to people not getting raises every year when many have lost a job or taken huge cuts just to stay employed.

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It is amazing to me for someone making more than 5 figures in the first place, taking extremely expensive vacations each year saying someone making 44K is over paid.

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

It is amazing to me for someone making more than 5 figures in the first place, taking extremely expensive vacations each year saying someone making 44K is over paid.

Could you please clarify exactly who you are talking to? Because I know that you don't know the first thing about my life, so surely it isn't me.....and if you could please quote where anyone in this thread has said that teachers are OVER paid I would appreciate it. I think that their pay is generally in accordance with their schedule. In some sectors they are surely underpaid, and in some (especially if you include pensions) they are certainly living cushy lives. My BFF's DH is an elementary school principal. He will retire at 61 and make 100K for the rest of his life thanks to his pension. That is pretty freaking sweet.

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I'm just saying that compared with equally educated and qualified folks in the private sector-- most teachers have a pretty good deal. I think part of the problem with our public school system is that we are spending so much to keep mediocre teachers in the classrooms, with their generous leave, short work days, tenure, pensions and contracts-- that we are spending less on facilities and maintenance and nutrition for kids in the schools. And by keeping sub par teachers in the classrooms we don't reward those who truly are performing.

Have you watched the documentary "Waiting for Superman?" If not, I suggest you do. Or begin reading books about the education system. I like Jonathan Kozol's book "Savage Inequalities".

We have many teachers in my family. I *was* a teacher. I think this absolutely is a public, social issue that we need to be talking about. I don't doubt that teachers want students to succeed or that they love children and work hard for them. I just don't think that they are falling hard on swords to do so.

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"wlillie" wrote:

I think it's insane that this even made news. They aren't telling her she can't go, just that she won't be paid. AND people have offered to pay her for the time off and started trying to collect donations. I understand the personal sacrifice their family made, but he's coming back to his regular duty station which means that he's fine and doesn't need his mom to pick him and his dad up from the airport. I honestly can't believe they keep saying that the school gave another employee extra days when their house burned down like it's the same thing. She's part of a union, she has to abide by the contract they made.

This. Seriously, she's trying to get paid when she shouldn't and using her step-son as an excuse for it.

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"boilermaker" wrote:

I'm sorry you haven't had any step increases-- but you do realize that the economy has pretty much been in the can for the last few years. Many of the folks that I know in the private sector (those that still have jobs....) have taken up to 25% pay cuts to keep their companies afloat. We've all had to pay more into healthcare and most of us have always been required to pitch in for our retirement....

Again, compared with what most in the private sector are doing, it is hard to be very sympathetic to the "plight" of "underpaid" teachers-- at least IMO.

I didn't ask you to feel sorry for me. In fact, my comments weren't even directed at you. I was talking to Melissa who suggested that teachers shouldn't complain about their pay because their salaries are public info and they knew what they were getting into. Besides, I'm sure that "many of the folks you know" that had to take a 25% pay cut had quite a bit to say about that too.....

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"Alana*sMommy" wrote:

I didn't ask you to feel sorry for me. In fact, my comments weren't even directed at you. I was talking to Melissa who suggested that teachers shouldn't complain about their pay because their salaries are public info and they knew what they were getting into. Besides, I'm sure that "many of the folks you know" that had to take a 25% pay cut had quite a bit to say about that too.....

I;m not saying that they shouldn't, they have the absolute right to complain about anything they like. It just seems......strange to complain about a salary that was very able to be known to the penny when one chose that occupation. I also have a hard time understanding how you relate not getting a raise to TAKING A 25% PAY CUT, which to me is just further proof that many teachers don't understand the realities of the private sector or realize how lucky they are with their unions and tenure and pension whatnot. When I chose a career in the private sector I didn't bother complaining about a lack of a pension or zero job security because those factors were acceptable to me given the money I could make. I could own my choices and the blessings (and downsides) of my occupation.

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"Potter75" wrote:

I;m not saying that they shouldn't, they have the absolute right to complain about anything they like. It just seems......strange to complain about a salary that was very able to be known to the penny when one chose that occupation. I also have a hard time understanding how you relate not getting a raise to TAKING A 25% PAY CUT, which to me is just further proof that many teachers don't understand the realities of the private sector or realize how lucky they are with their unions and tenure and pension whatnot. When I chose a career in the private sector I didn't bother complaining about a lack of a pension or zero job security because those factors were acceptable to me given the money I could make. I could own my choices and the blessings (and downsides) of my occupation.

I did know down to the penny what i would be making teaching. I also could predict how much I would make years down the road. I didn't know I would take a 20% pay cut over 2 years. Or that the state would talk about 3 weeks' of furlough days which will mean another 10% cut. Or the district could freeze step and column indefinitely.

When I bought my house in 2001, the bank took into account not only my current salary, but my payscale for earnings in the future. They were very conservative in what they would loan me, but needed the information to show consistant earnings.

My X was unemployed for 2 years so no child support. Things have been tough for me, so yeah, I know how it is in the private sector.

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Although I do agree that teachers have some pretty good benefits, especially when comparing to the private sector, I dont understand the argument that they knew how much them make so they shouldnt complain. Dh is now making less money then he did when he started teaching 10 years ago. He is also paying 2x as much for his insurance and his union dues have gone up almost 50% (BTW we hate unions, but in Oregon you have to contribute) We had no idea that he would be making so much less. I think a lot of people entered the field thinking they would be making something totally different. We are not complaining though, he still has a job which is more than can be said for most of the people in his masters program.

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[

QUOTE=ethanwinfield;8844294]

When I bought my house in 2001, the bank took into account not only my current salary, but my payscale for earnings in the future. They were very conservative in what they would loan me, but needed the information to show consistant earnings.

Yes, this is called life. We all deal with such things, this is in no way unique to teachers.

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"mom3girls" wrote:

Although I do agree that teachers have some pretty good benefits, especially when comparing to the private sector, I dont understand the argument that they knew how much them make so they shouldnt complain. Dh is now making less money then he did when he started teaching 10 years ago. He is also paying 2x as much for his insurance and his union dues have gone up almost 50% (BTW we hate unions, but in Oregon you have to contribute) We had no idea that he would be making so much less. I think a lot of people entered the field thinking they would be making something totally different. We are not complaining though, he still has a job which is more than can be said for most of the people in his masters program.

Yes, that was their mistake. Again, this is life, this is not something unique to teachers. All I'm saying is that many argue consistently how underpaid teachers are, and I disagree. Teachers who entered the profession not knowing the norms of what teachers make did so foolishly.

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