Team Paul Ryan or Team Soup Kitchen?

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Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427
Team Paul Ryan or Team Soup Kitchen?

GRRRRRR! I am so mad! This is the third time I have tried to post this. I keep doing a nice little summary, and then my screen goes blank. So oh well, you guys can read the articles for yourselves.

First part of the story:

Charity president unhappy about Paul Ryan soup kitchen ‘photo op’

Second part of the story:

Soup Kitchen In Paul Ryan Photo-Op Faces Donor Backlash

Okay, debate questions:

1. Do you think it was wrong of the Ryan clan to come in to a soup kitchen as a kind of campaign stop without going through the proper channels to get permission?
2. Once there, and finding that all of the work was already done, was it wrong of them to rewash some clean dishes for a photo op?
3. Do you think that the president of the charity has a valid point in protesting that the charity would not have allowed this as they cannot afford to appear to support one political candidate over another?
4. On the other hand, do you think it was right of the charity president to tell the media that Ryan family didn't do anything and just washed a couple of clean dishes for a photo op?
5. Do you think he (the charity president) has a political agenda himself since he typically votes Democratic?
6. Now that the charity president came out in protest of Paul Ryan's visit, do you think that people are right to withdraw their donations in solidarity?
7. Do you think it hurts the charity president or those that are in need of the charity's services more if their donations drop?

That's all I can think of - there are so many points to this whole story! LOL

This better post or I am going to go pregnancy-hormone WILD!!!! Aggressive

ClairesMommy's picture
Joined: 08/15/06
Posts: 2299

When I think of someone doing an unselfish deed, I think of that person doing it when they think no one's looking.

I basically answer 'for shame' to the whole thing. Shame shame shame on Ryan.

And how are those hormones these days, Alissa? Wink

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4100

Yay! It worked this time! Whenever I'm posting a new topic, I always copy what I wrote JIC that happens because, sadly, it seems to be happening a lot. Sad

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes. As I said at length on another debate, appearing to favor one candidate over another jeopardizes the charity's 501(c)3 status.
4. I don't think it was wrong. He was told that was what happened, he was simply relating it to the media. If he'd been told that Ryan had peed on the kitchen floor or that Ryan had sent all the workers out to lunch while he himself single-handedly did all the dirty dishes, he wouldn't have been wrong to relate those things, either.
5. We don't know how he votes. Yes, he's been registered as a Democrat for many years, but he identified himself as an independent voter which indicates to me that he's not a die-hard Dem.
6. & 7. I really don't understand this one bit. If you really support the work this charity is doing, why would you even consider withdrawing your support because a volunteer opened the door to the VP candidate? You aren't hurting the person who made the decision or the top brass who said they wouldn't have let Ryan in, you're hurting the poor people that you're supposed to be serving. If you can't stand Ryan, the charity didn't do anything wrong, and to punish it by withdrawing your support is stupid. If you love Ryan, then appreciate that your charity's top brass is concerned about maintaining its 501(c)3 status. Win-win.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

"Spacers" wrote:

6. & 7. I really don't understand this one bit. If you really support the work this charity is doing, why would you even consider withdrawing your support because a volunteer opened the door to the VP candidate? You aren't hurting the person who made the decision or the top brass who said they wouldn't have let Ryan in, you're hurting the poor people that you're supposed to be serving. If you can't stand Ryan, the charity didn't do anything wrong, and to punish it by withdrawing your support is stupid. If you love Ryan, then appreciate that your charity's top brass is concerned about maintaining its 501(c)3 status. Win-win.

I think from the article that they are withdrawing their donations because the charity president "badmouthed" Paul Ryan, not because they let Paul Ryan in. I think that because of comments like "Shame on you Brian Antal." Brian Antal is the charity president, and as far as I know his only role in this was to protest after the fact.

Sapphire Sunsets's picture
Joined: 05/19/02
Posts: 672

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes, very valid
4) Yes.
5) No
6) Yes, the soup kitchen is apolitical
7) How would it hurt the charity president? It hurts the people who are in need of their services. Thats the whole reason why the charity president said he doesn't let any political parties come and do a "photo op" . I'd be pissed too because now those people who really need the help aren't going to get it. If they don't get the donations and they don't have food, what happens? Common sense says they would have to turn away people and thats not right at all. It takes some people ALOT of pride to accept help.

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4100

"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I think from the article that they are withdrawing their donations because the charity president "badmouthed" Paul Ryan, not because they let Paul Ryan in. I think that because of comments like "Shame on you Brian Antal." Brian Antal is the charity president, and as far as I know his only role in this was to protest after the fact.

He didn't badmouth Paul Ryan. He related information that was given to him by volunteers who were there because people asked what happened. If it turned out that Paul Ryan actually did some dishes, great, but I can't see why people are upset with this guy. And he was absolutely right to protest this when he found out about it. See my response to #3 above for why.

GloriaInTX's picture
Joined: 07/29/08
Posts: 4116

I think this guy is acting like a spoiled brat. Publicity is good for any charity, instead of trying to work it for the good it could do he is letting his own political opinions get in the way. I don't think a charity should turn down ANYONE that wants to help out.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

"Spacers" wrote:

He didn't badmouth Paul Ryan. He related information that was given to him by volunteers who were there because people asked what happened. If it turned out that Paul Ryan actually did some dishes, great, but I can't see why people are upset with this guy. And he was absolutely right to protest this when he found out about it. See my response to #3 above for why.

I agree with you, I'm just saying that I think it is Paul Ryan's supporters that have withdrawn their donations, not Paul Ryan's opposition.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

"GloriaInTX" wrote:

I think this guy is acting like a spoiled brat. Publicity is good for any charity, instead of trying to work it for the good it could do he is letting his own political opinions get in the way. I don't think a charity should turn down ANYONE that wants to help out.

Gloria, I disagree. I think that it is a fair point that the charity can't afford to be seen as supporting one candidate over another. People get nuts over politics (witness people boycotting a pizza parlour because the owner hugged the President.) I think it would have been one thing if Paul Ryan and his family had just shown up to volunteer as individuals sans cameras, but the fact that they brought their camera crew makes it clear that this was done for the benefit of the campaign, and I don't blame the president of the charity at all for not wanting his charity to be a part of anyone's campaign.

Also, I don't think that washing a few clean dishes while his camera crew snaps pictures counts as "helping out."

Sapphire Sunsets's picture
Joined: 05/19/02
Posts: 672

"GloriaInTX" wrote:

I think this guy is acting like a spoiled brat. Publicity is good for any charity, instead of trying to work it for the good it could do he is letting his own political opinions get in the way. I don't think a charity should turn down ANYONE that wants to help out.

How exactly did they help out??

They showed up after everyone was already fed, dishes were already washed and things already straightened and did a photo op of him rewashing already washed dishes.

Really? Thats helping out? Good to know, I've volunteered at a soup kitchen before and damn i'm missing out cause i never got off that easy by rewashing clean dishes.

GloriaInTX's picture
Joined: 07/29/08
Posts: 4116

"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Gloria, I disagree. I think that it is a fair point that the charity can't afford to be seen as supporting one candidate over another. People get nuts over politics (witness people boycotting a pizza parlour because the owner hugged the President.) I think it would have been one thing if Paul Ryan and his family had just shown up to volunteer as individuals sans cameras, but the fact that they brought their camera crew makes it clear that this was done for the benefit of the campaign, and I don't blame the president of the charity at all for not wanting his charity to be a part of anyone's campaign.

Also, I don't think that washing a few clean dishes while his camera crew snaps pictures counts as "helping out."

Ryan's campaign did nothing wrong. How were they supposed to know that they had to have this man's permission ahead of time? He also helped out by thanking those volunteers that were there for their service. And it sounds like they were very happy about that.

Upon entering the soup kitchen, Ryan, his wife and three young children greeted and thanked several volunteers, then donned white aprons and offered to clean some dishes. Photographers snapped photos and TV cameras shot footage of Ryan and his family washing pots and pans that did not appear to be dirty.

According to a Romney aide not authorized to speak publicly about the event, the campaign followed its usual protocol for impromptu, on-the-road stops by candidates: A staffer was dispatched to the St. Vincent De Paul Society ahead of Ryan’s visit Saturday morning and spoke with a woman in charge on site, who said that it would be fine for the congressman to stop by. The campaign did not contact Antal ahead of the visit.

The woman on site told the Romney staffer that some of the volunteers had already left, but that most were happy to remain until Ryan arrived, according to the aide. After Ryan left the soup kitchen, the woman approached a campaign staffer and expressed gratitude for Ryan’s visit, the aide said.

Chris Maloney, Ohio communications director for the Romney campaign, said that the visit by Ryan had been intended to highlight the work of the soup kitchen volunteers.

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4100

Yeah, maybe next time I'm in the mood for volunteering I'll hit SVDP instead of the food bank. Last time I froze my *** off counting burritos in a freezer. **brrrr** They gave us gloves but I could have used a coat, hat, socks, better shoes...

ETA: Paul Ryan is running for vice president of our country. I expect him -- and his handlers -- to have a better idea of what is acceptable for him to do and not do in the public eye. Someone *should* have known that such a charity would be jeopardizing itself by allowing them in as a campaign stunt and might not appreciate being his stage. To think otherwise shows how out of touch he is with how our government works.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Ryan's campaign did nothing wrong. How were they supposed to know that they had to have this man's permission ahead of time? He also helped out by thanking those volunteers that were there for their service. And it sounds like they were very happy about that.

That's a valid point - they can't know every charity's policies ahead of time, and if the people at the site said "come on in" (volunteers who probably also don't know the policy) then it's hard to blame them for coming on in.

I still don't blame the charity officials for disavowing it after the fact, because, again, they can't be seen as supporting someone's campaign.

And come on, you have to admit that it's a little funny that they came in and supposedly just re-washed some dishes for the camera crew. Biggrin Like, "Dammit, we came to get our photo op, and we're getting our photo-op." Biggrin

Sapphire Sunsets's picture
Joined: 05/19/02
Posts: 672

"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Ryan's campaign did nothing wrong. How were they supposed to know that they had to have this man's permission ahead of time? He also helped out by thanking those volunteers that were there for their service. And it sounds like they were very happy about that.

Have some common sense and do research or contact them ahead of time. If i was running for something and thought/knew my presence where they depend on donations to help people would effect it in any way you can bet i'd make sure it was ok that i came there ahead of time.

GloriaInTX's picture
Joined: 07/29/08
Posts: 4116

"Sapphire Sunsets" wrote:

Have some common sense and do research or contact them ahead of time. If i was running for something and thought/knew my presence where they depend on donations to help people would effect it in any way you can bet i'd make sure it was ok that i came there ahead of time.

They did.

A staffer was dispatched to the St. Vincent De Paul Society ahead of Ryan’s visit Saturday morning and spoke with a woman in charge on site, who said that it would be fine for the congressman to stop by.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6560

I would be very surprised if things actually happened how they are coming across. If someone called ahead and asked if he could stop and was told yes, I do not see what he did wrong. The worker should have known the policy.

Totally besides the point, but I love the show Blue Bloods. This makes me think of the episode "Thanksgiving". I think it is very normal for politicians to do charity work like that for publicity.

mom3girls's picture
Joined: 01/09/07
Posts: 1535

One of his handlers called ahead and they said it was fine. Anything after that is up to the charity to deal with. If the guy that is in charge (a democrat) should be angry with anyone, it should be the staffer that said to come on in.
I am sure that the guy that is making a big deal out of it has a political agenda. I am also sure that this publicity may be showing some signs of negative repercussions, long term will have little if any effect

wlillie's picture
Joined: 09/17/07
Posts: 1796

1. Do you think it was wrong of the Ryan clan to come in to a soup kitchen as a kind of campaign stop without going through the proper channels to get permission? Yes, if he had, but they called and asked.
2. Once there, and finding that all of the work was already done, was it wrong of them to rewash some clean dishes for a photo op? Yes, it made it look like he did something he didn't do. They should have got there on time.
3. Do you think that the president of the charity has a valid point in protesting that the charity would not have allowed this as they cannot afford to appear to support one political candidate over another? No, it's stupid to draw attention to an error your organization made by letting him use the building in the first place. Just downright stupid if you really believe it'll affect your donations let alone your tax exempt status. HuffPo probably would never ever have picked up on the story if it was positive and Fox would have let it go as insignificant. I believe the guy is sacrificing his charity for his candidate.
4. On the other hand, do you think it was right of the charity president to tell the media that Ryan family didn't do anything and just washed a couple of clean dishes for a photo op? Same answer as 3
5. Do you think he (the charity president) has a political agenda himself since he typically votes Democratic? same answer as 3
6. Now that the charity president came out in protest of Paul Ryan's visit, do you think that people are right to withdraw their donations in solidarity? I don't think they really are, but no, it's wrong to do because feeding people is feeding people. Nobody was killed or otherwise harmed during the photoshoot.
7. Do you think it hurts the charity president or those that are in need of the charity's services more if their donations drop?
Those in need. When he gets fired for screwing this up, they are going to have to find someone new.

I am honestly shocked that Huffpo would post this. It makes Democrats look terrible. Absolutely shocked they'd post it. Cutting off your nose to spite your face!!! ****ty thing to do on Ryan's part, he should have got there on time to help, but damn, the charity guy is a stupid idiot. It makes me feel dirty that someone would disregard the negative impact this was going to have on his own charity; he should have known better. Someone that stupid or that willing to hurt his own people shouldn't be running an organization. Shame on Ryan too.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

"wlillie" wrote:

Nobody was killed or otherwise harmed during the photoshoot.

Lol