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Thread: Teen Sentenced To Attend Church

  1. #11
    Posting Addict smsturner's Avatar
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    Oh, and my opinion lol

    Definitely a violation of church and state to get his nose anywhere near to his religion. Christian should def NOT be treated any differently by the courts. (why on earth should they be??)

    And I think it's a lousy move for rehabilitation. Church didn't stop him before, how is it supposed to help now? Maybe something that will impact him more would do better.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone caught driving drunk. Especially teenagers who shouldn't be drinking anyway.
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  2. #12
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wlillie View Post
    I think that judges make the right decision more often than not. If they kid had said "I'm an Atheist" don't you think most judges could handle it?

    Yes to the last question.
    Yes it is appropriate to treat Christians differently when it comes to criminal punishment?? Care to elaborate?

    The problem with how the judge might have handled it if the kid were an atheist is this:

    He could have

    a) sentenced him to church anyway, which would be a violation of his civil rights. Unlikely, but maybe.
    b) sentenced him to the same probationary measures (ankle bracelet, counseling, et cetera) but omit the "church sentence." The problem I have with this is, if the judge thinks that the other measures are sufficient unto themselves and the church sentence actually isn't needed, why is he messing around with anyone's religion? Come to think of it, I think that it is still a a violation of this kid's civil rights even though he is a Christian, because it's still not the judges business to make legal requirements about when and how he worships.
    c) not offered the probation and just send the atheist to prison instead. How is that fair?

    There are no such things as atheist churches. There is not even anything comparable.
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  3. #13
    Community Host wlillie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Yes it is appropriate to treat Christians differently when it comes to criminal punishment?? Care to elaborate?

    The problem with how the judge might have handled it if the kid were an atheist is this:

    He could have

    a) sentenced him to church anyway, which would be a violation of his civil rights. Unlikely, but maybe.
    b) sentenced him to the same probationary measures (ankle bracelet, counseling, et cetera) but omit the "church sentence." The problem I have with this is, if the judge thinks that the other measures are sufficient unto themselves and the church sentence actually isn't needed, why is he messing around with anyone's religion? Come to think of it, I think that it is still a a violation of this kid's civil rights even though he is a Christian, because it's still not the judges business to make legal requirements about when and how he worships.
    c) not offered the probation and just send the atheist to prison instead. How is that fair?

    There are no such things as atheist churches. There is not even anything comparable
    .
    Whose fault is that? Seriously? Want to be taken seriously when it comes to belief systems, create an organization that has the same sense of community, the same devotion to helping others, and train someone to be the leader. Have them meet once a week and eat Twinkies for all I care, but don't expect sympathy/empathy from people because there isn't currently a positive Atheist organization available.

    If the kid had said he was an atheist instead of known to go to church, the judge probably wouldn't have included it as part of his sentencing. It probably would have been some form of community service or an extra class with a support group which is why I said it's OK to treat Christians (or anyone religious for that matter) different in sentencing. If this judge had ordered an Atheist to go to a church (a religious one= there are political ones), then there should be a debate. Otherwise it's people getting their panties in a wad about stuff that literally has nothing to do with them.

    eta-That's one of my biggest problems with most of the ideas that come from being a liberal. Not everyone should be treated the same. Just like the same punishment doesn't work for every child, the same punishment does not work for every adult. Trying to be "fair" all the time is just downright silly. This extra punishment obviously didn't piss this guy off or even offend him so why does it bother anyone else?
    Last edited by wlillie; 11-19-2012 at 08:17 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by wlillie View Post
    Whose fault is that? Seriously? Want to be taken seriously when it comes to belief systems, create an organization that has the same sense of community, the same devotion to helping others, and train someone to be the leader. Have them meet once a week and eat Twinkies for all I care, but don't expect sympathy/empathy from people because there isn't currently a positive Atheist organization available.

    If the kid had said he was an atheist instead of known to go to church, the judge probably wouldn't have included it as part of his sentencing. It probably would have been some form of community service or an extra class with a support group which is why I said it's OK to treat Christians (or anyone religious for that matter) different in sentencing. If this judge had ordered an Atheist to go to a church (a religious one= there are political ones), then there should be a debate. Otherwise it's people getting their panties in a wad about stuff that literally has nothing to do with them.

    eta-That's one of my biggest problems with most of the ideas that come from being a liberal. Not everyone should be treated the same. Just like the same punishment doesn't work for every child, the same punishment does not work for every adult. Trying to be "fair" all the time is just downright silly. This extra punishment obviously didn't piss this guy off or even offend him so why does it bother anyone else?
    To the bolded...I find this completely awful to read. I follow Christian principles but your statement is full of negativity and for no reason. I do have a common belief system and I still thought this punishment was ridiculous.

    No one is saying 1 punishment fits all and for someone who is always quoting the Constitution and how we don't follow it...you seriously can't see what is wrong here? No one is getting their "panties in a wad" we're just debating how we feel about the punishment...just like we do everything else.

    I have to say, I find your posts often are filled with mean and attacking words for absolutely no reason. It turns me off from seriously debating with you.]

    Sorry, I said some not nice things while I was angry and I corrected it.
    Last edited by Jessica80; 11-19-2012 at 10:05 PM. Reason: Not very nice response.

  5. #15
    Mega Poster mom3girls's Avatar
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    If the judge knew ahead of time he was a christian then I believe he was within his rights as a judge. If he knew he was an atheist then it would be wrong
    Lisa
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  6. #16
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    I am not 100% sure how I feel about this, but wanted to ask some additional questions for clarification. I know youths who are arrested are often sent to camps for rehabilitation. Like a "Military Boot Camp" to shape up the troubled youth. Some of these camps are Christian run. I do not see this as a problem. I think many times they might be given a choice "You can go to prison for 1 year, or you can go to a rehabilitation camp for 1 year). I do not think this is wrong and can have a much bigger impact on a person's life than going to prison where they just learn to be a better criminal.

    Do those of you who oppose being sentenced to going to church oppose any kind of religious rehabilitation? Sometimes they are the only ones out there that care enough to make a place for troubled kids to go to. Would it make a difference to you if he was given a choice of "Going to church for 10 years" or "1,000" hours of community service and he chose going to church?

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  7. #17
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    I said I might think differently if it was a choice but still a bit icky (or at least I thought I did earlier..maybe I didn't). I think the rehabs are the same...they get to pick which one and they can opt for a church based program. It's a gray area and right now I'm okay with that.

    I just find it a weird punishment and not just because it is church but also because it IS church. It shouldn't be a punishment.

  8. #18
    Community Host wlillie's Avatar
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    I don't really care. Honestly.

    Our chaplains on base take their time and show up/plan activities for the Atheists on our base on a weekly basis and no one ever shows up. You can't complain about not being treated equally if you don't make even the bare minimum effort to have something like a church for your belief/non belief. When I came through for school we had two Wiccans and they showed up for every single one of their meetings scheduled with the Chaplain (Catholic guy at that time).

    It's just my personal opinion that the only time you hear someone say they are Atheist is to put down someone who is religious for their belief, complain that the religious are getting special treatment, or complain that no one recognizes their choice is valid. If they want to have equal treatment when it comes to judgements like this they need to put in at least a teensy weensy bit of effort to have something similar for their criminals. Or suck it up when they don't.

    It Is NOT Freedom FROM Religion. It is Freedom OF Religion.

  9. #19
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    But why would they have a church for non belief and why would they go to a religious activity when they don't believe in it? That doesn't make any sense/

    I don't claim to be Athiest at all and I call B/S on what many of you think is equal treatment and examples of what Jesus/God would do/think etc.

    I guess for those of us who want to worship freely we find that being forced to go to Church as punishment is gross on many levels.

    And you are wrong, of course you have freedom from religion. You have freedom to not have to adhere to anyone else's belief system or rules.

  10. #20
    Community Host wlillie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    But why would they have a church for non belief and why would they go to a religious activity when they don't believe in it? That doesn't make any sense/

    I don't claim to be Athiest at all and I call B/S on what many of you think is equal treatment and examples of what Jesus/God would do/think etc.

    I guess for those of us who want to worship freely we find that being forced to go to Church as punishment is gross on many levels.

    And you are wrong, of course you have freedom from religion. You have freedom to not have to adhere to anyone else's belief system or rules.
    That's the whole point. This guy is adhering to his own belief system or rules.

    eta- There isn't any religious activity. No one shows up, but if they did, the had activities and discussion topics to go over that weren't religious in nature. Constitution-I'm not wrong- go look at it.
    Last edited by wlillie; 11-19-2012 at 11:14 PM.

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