Transgender Man in Girl's locker room

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GloriaInTX's picture
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Transgender Man in Girl's locker room

Should an adult transgender male be allowed to run around naked in a girl's locker room or is that taking a non-discrimination policy too far?

A Washington college said their non-discrimination policy prevents them from stopping a transgender man from exposing himself to young girls inside a women?s locker room, according to a group of concerned parents.

?Little girls should not be exposed to naked men, period,? said David Hacker, senior legal counsel with the Alliance Defending Freedom. A group of concerned parents contacted the legal firm for help.

Hacker said a 45-year-old male student, who dresses as a woman and goes by the name Colleen Francis, undressed and exposed his genitals on several occasions inside the woman?s locker room at Evergreen State College.

Students from nearby Olympia High School as well as children at a local swimming club share locker rooms with the college.

According to a police report, the mother of a 17-year-old girl complained after her daughter saw the transgender individual walking naked in the locker room. A female swim coach confronted the man sprawled out in a sauna exposing himself. She ordered him to leave and called police.

The coach later apologized when she discovered the man was transgendered but explained there were girls using the facility as young as six years old who weren?t used to seeing male genitals.

?They?re uncomfortable with him being in there, her, being in there and are shocked by it,? parent Kristi Holterman told KIRO-TV.

According to the police report, the local district attorney probably will not pursue charges because he said the ?criminal law is very vague in this area.?

Francis told KIRO-TV that he was born a man but chose to live as a woman in 2009. Francis said he felt discriminated against after he was told told leave.

?This is not 1959 Alabama,? Francis told the television station. ?We don?t call police for drinking from the wrong water fountain.?

Hacker and local parents are outraged over the college?s response to the incident.

?The idea that the college and the local district attorney will not act to protect young girls is appalling,? he said. ?What Americans are seeing here is the poisoned fruit of so-called ?non-discrimination? laws and policies.?

Placing this man?s proclivities ahead of protecting little girls is beyond unacceptable, Hacker said.

A spokesman for the college did not return calls seeking comment.

Hacker said the college could be held liable for damages if any of the young girls is harmed by the transgendered individual.

?Clearly, allowing a person who is biologically a man to undress and expose himself to young girls places those girls at risk for emotional distress and harm,? he wrote in a letter to the college. ?Any reasonable person would view this as dangerous to the young girls involved. The fact that this individual was sitting in plain view of young girls changing into their swimsuits puts you and Evergreen on notice of possible future harm.?

College Allows Transgender Man to Expose Himself to Young Girls | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

ClairesMommy's picture
Joined: 08/15/06
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He may be transgendered but he has not had sex reassignment surgery. The story says he exposed his genitals to young girls, women, etc. That would be completely unacceptable to me. I don't give a rats a$$ how you identify yourself. With your penis exposed I most definitely identify you as male, my children identify you as male and no way, no how will I also myself or my children to view a naked strange man, or for him to view us naked. Sorry, your identity does not trump my right or my children's right to not be viewed in any state of undress with strange penises nearby or be forced to have someone's strange penis exposed to us.

GloriaInTX's picture
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I don't care what he calls himself it sounds like to me like he is just a pervert trying to take advantage of the system so he can sit naked and watch little girls get dressed. If the law can't prevent that happening I think the law needs to be changed.

Jokr's picture
Joined: 04/19/12
Posts: 282

I don't care which gender you identify with, if your genitals are male, you use the men's change room. I think any rational person would agree that when you are of the opposite gender it's inappropriate to strip down and expose yourself to young girls. If he feels that he has a right to use the sauna, then what's wrong with clothes? Go put on a pair of swim trunks!

wlillie's picture
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That is appalling.

smsturner's picture
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I was curious for something other than a FOX news report. God knows they aren't very objective.

Apparently it is a state law that

According to state law, it requires equal access to state facilities regardless of gender identity.

Also, I really don't like the way it was put that "HE" 'was exposing himself'. It seems far more like she (sorry, but if she wants to be referred to as a she, it's up to her to decide, we don't get to decide what she calls herself) was just using her normal rooms as an older college student and the students happened to see her than anything else. FAR less malicious than fox makes it sound. And they say 'young girls'... these were 17 year olds. That is not really what i would think of as a young girl.

I wish i could say there was a good solution. But really, where should we stick her? In the middle of a bunch of men, even though she's been a woman for 3 years?

ETA: oops, forgot the link!!
Transgender woman told to leave women

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
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"smsturner" wrote:

I was curious for something other than a FOX news report. God knows they aren't very objective.

Apparently it is a state law that

Also, I really don't like the way it was put that "HE" 'was exposing himself'. It seems far more like she (sorry, but if she wants to be referred to as a she, it's up to her to decide, we don't get to decide what she calls herself) was just using her normal rooms as an older college student and the students happened to see her than anything else. FAR less malicious than fox makes it sound. And they say 'young girls'... these were 17 year olds. That is not really what i would think of as a young girl.

I wish i could say there was a good solution. But really, where should we stick her? In the middle of a bunch of men, even though she's been a woman for 3 years?

ETA: oops, forgot the link!!
Transgender woman told to leave women

Clear up some facts for me please. Did s/he have male genitilia? Did s/he expose him/her self to children? If so, s/he is a he and has no business exposing himself to little girls. I really do not think any non-parent adult should be exposing their genitilia to children regardless of what gender they are. I would not change my underwear in front of children that were not my own.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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"smsturner" wrote:

(sorry, but if she wants to be referred to as a she, it's up to her to decide, we don't get to decide what she calls herself)

We do not control what someone else calls themself, but we can call someone whatever we feel most comfortable calling them as long as it is not profane or defamatory. There is no law that says you have to call someone he or she.

wlillie's picture
Joined: 09/17/07
Posts: 1796

"smsturner" wrote:

I was curious for something other than a FOX news report. God knows they aren't very objective.

Apparently it is a state law that

Also, I really don't like the way it was put that "HE" 'was exposing himself'. It seems far more like she (sorry, but if she wants to be referred to as a she, it's up to her to decide, we don't get to decide what she calls herself) was just using her normal rooms as an older college student and the students happened to see her than anything else. FAR less malicious than fox makes it sound. And they say 'young girls'... these were 17 year olds. That is not really what i would think of as a young girl.

I wish i could say there was a good solution. But really, where should we stick her? In the middle of a bunch of men, even though she's been a woman for 3 years?

ETA: oops, forgot the link!!
Transgender woman told to leave women

"She" should have put some damn shorts on if "she" didn't want to "expose himself" because "she" was actually not only in front of 17 year olds, but young children and it doesn't matter *AT ALL* how old the "young girls" were because they have the right to not see a penis in the locker rooms. His rights stop where theirs get intruded on. "She"' is obviously just being an *** because "she" said "the students need to be informed."

Until "She" becomes a "she" then "she" needs to keep her damn clothes on in front of people. Otherwise we leave ourselves open to having perverts randomly saying they are "she's" so they can get into locker rooms with the opposite sex! Get the surgery or go to the bathroom that matches what is in your drawers.

smsturner's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

Clear up some facts for me please. Did s/he have male genitilia? Did s/he expose him/her self to children? If so, s/he is a he and has no business exposing himself to little girls. I really do not think any non-parent adult should be exposing their genitilia to children regardless of what gender they are. I would not change my underwear in front of children that were not my own.

SHE does still have male parts. SHE changed in the room, and used the sauna, but didn't purposefully flash kids. 17 year olds are NOT little girls.

And honestly, I agree with you, I don't think I'm happy with my kids seeing ANY adult naked. But this was a state college, and the teens were using the state college locker room where SHE is a student. It's a locker room. They are a swim team. They are bound to see other flesh when changing. And really, is a 17 year old girl changing out of swim suits and different looking than an adult changing in a swim suit?
If there are parents that don't want their 17 year olds changing with adults, they shouldn't have them swimming in a state college pool. Pretty much everyone there will be over 18.

smsturner's picture
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"wlillie" wrote:

"She" should have put some damn shorts on if "she" didn't want to "expose himself" because "she" was actually not only in front of 17 year olds, but young children and it doesn't matter *AT ALL* how old the "young girls" were because they have the right to not see a penis in the locker rooms. His rights stop where theirs get intruded on. "She"' is obviously just being an *** because "she" said "the students need to be informed."

Until "She" becomes a "she" then "she" needs to keep her damn clothes on in front of people. Otherwise we leave ourselves open to having perverts randomly saying they are "she's" so they can get into locker rooms with the opposite sex! Get the surgery or go to the bathroom that matches what is in your drawers.

There were no young children in the locker rooms. Read your own article please. Just because you have a different (rather narrow) view of what the you might refer to as a man or woman, doesn't mean this woman needs her rights trampled.

smsturner's picture
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oops. Have no idea why this posted multiple times...

wlillie's picture
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"smsturner" wrote:

There were no young children in the locker rooms. Read your own article please. Just because you have a different (rather narrow) view of what the you might refer to as a man or woman, doesn't mean this woman needs her rights trampled.

What article?

I don't have a narrow view and her rights getting trampled prevents eveyrone else in the locker rooms rights from being trampled. I wouldn't give a flying rats patootie if "she" had got the surgery and wanted to use the female locker room. Until she does, she needs to use the one where her parts match the other naked peoples. Why on Earth do you think the kids using the pool should be the ones to have their rights trampled over a 45 year old who feels the need to flash "her" penis around? Seriously? If you don't think she's a pervert, then how do you explain not using at least a damn towel in the sauna?

AlyssaEimers's picture
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The OP repedidtally says little girls.

GloriaInTX's picture
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"smsturner" wrote:

I wish i could say there was a good solution. But really, where should we stick her? In the middle of a bunch of men, even though she's been a woman for 3 years?

Yes. He hasn't been a woman for the last 3 years, he has been calling himself a woman for the last 3 years. He was a man for 42 years before that. He should be in the men's locker room. If he had been discreet instead of walking around naked and sitting nude in a sauna no one would have known. The only thing that makes him transgender is that he dresses like a woman, so when the clothes are off he is just a man in a women's locker room.

Some solution they came up with. They make all the rest of the girls use a smaller locker room so he can have the larger one to himself.

Rivergallery's picture
Joined: 05/23/03
Posts: 1301

There were girls as young as six that use the facility. !7 is still underage. It is not a mixed gender dressing room or sauna. So no if she wanted to use the female rooms she should have appeared as much female as possible, covering up. Most people I know while changing in rooms or saunas still do so as modestly as possible.

GloriaInTX's picture
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"smsturner" wrote:

There were no young children in the locker rooms. Read your own article please. Just because you have a different (rather narrow) view of what the you might refer to as a man or woman, doesn't mean this woman needs her rights trampled.

It says that children 6 years old and up use that locker room. The fact that they just didn't happen to be there at the time doesn't mean they couldn't have been.

smsturner's picture
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"wlillie" wrote:

What article?

I don't have a narrow view and her rights getting trampled prevents eveyrone else in the locker rooms rights from being trampled. I wouldn't give a flying rats patootie if "she" had got the surgery and wanted to use the female locker room. Until she does, she needs to use the one where her parts match the other naked peoples. Why on Earth do you think the kids using the pool should be the ones to have their rights trampled over a 45 year old who feels the need to flash "her" penis around? Seriously? If you don't think she's a pervert, then how do you explain not using at least a damn towel in the sauna?

YOURS.

I am siding with her rights, because it's her state school, and the state law says so. And the teens are borrowing it.

"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

The OP repedidtally says little girls.

That's why i said it wasn't very objective. It clearly calls 17 year olds little girls over and over.

wlillie's picture
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6 year old girls are little. 17 year old girls are still protected. 31 year old women are still protected.

They should change their policy to match Penn States because I bet they are getting money from the organizations that use the pool that have the young children. Perverts shouldn't be allowed in the women's locker room no matter what they identify as. I don't care if he thinks he's a purple alien from the moon, he has a penis.

Transitioning or Transgender Students

ClairesMommy's picture
Joined: 08/15/06
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"smsturner" wrote:

SHE does still have male parts. SHE changed in the room, and used the sauna, but didn't purposefully flash kids. 17 year olds are NOT little girls.

And honestly, I agree with you, I don't think I'm happy with my kids seeing ANY adult naked. But this was a state college, and the teens were using the state college locker room where SHE is a student. It's a locker room. They are a swim team. They are bound to see other flesh when changing. And really, is a 17 year old girl changing out of swim suits and different looking than an adult changing in a swim suit?
If there are parents that don't want their 17 year olds changing with adults, they shouldn't have them swimming in a state college pool. Pretty much everyone there will be over 18.

I can't believe you are turning this around on the parents of the MINOR females in the change room. Are you joking? Changing with strangers who are the same identifyable gender - i.e. changing with females who have female parts - is a world away from changing in front of a strange male with a penis. I don't care if (s)he flashed kids or not! His gentalia was exposed in front of a room full of strangers - adults and teens alike. If a man walked into our changeroom while my daughter is getting ready for swim lessons and he took off his clothes I would go bat $hit crazy. You'd be okay with a man hanging out his unit in front of your 17 year old daughter or 20 year old daughter or whatever? I for one and completely not okay with that.

wlillie's picture
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"smsturner" wrote:

YOURS. WTF are you talking about
I am siding with her rights, because it's her state school, and the state law says so. And the teens are borrowing it.

That's why i said it wasn't very objective. It clearly calls 17 year olds little girls over and over.

It says the swim coach said they have 6 year old little girls in the locker room in the OP's article.

It says clearly that a 17 year old reported it.

smsturner's picture
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"Rivergallery" wrote:

Most people I know while changing in rooms or saunas still do so as modestly as possible.

I agree with this too. I am modest like that, and I really think most people are. At the very least I would be selfconscious in front of a bunch of 17 year old swimmers. God they must look all put together and nonsaggy compared to me! lol

"GloriaInTX" wrote:

It says that children 6 years old and up use that locker room. The fact that they just didn't happen to be there at the time doesn't mean they couldn't have been.

Well everyone keeps saying "he exposed himself to little girls". but no. the 6 year olds were not there (what are 6 year olds doing in a state college locker room?). So he didn't.

wlillie's picture
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"smsturner" wrote:

I agree with this too. I am modest like that, and I really think most people are. At the very least I would be selfconscious in front of a bunch of 17 year old swimmers. God they must look all put together and nonsaggy compared to me! lol

Well everyone keeps saying "he exposed himself to little girls". but no. the 6 year olds were not there (what are 6 year olds doing in a state college locker room?). So he didn't.

Read the articles please.

Joined: 05/23/12
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I think it is insane to allow a person with the other parts to mix up like this. No way would I stand for it. It is not discriminating. I see a locker room as a public place and no person should be naked in public. There should be stalls or some other means of discreetly changing. I think no person should be allowed to be naked just because they are the same gender and in this case HE is not yet a SHE despite what he in his imagination feels like. He very much has HE parts.

indigoV51's picture
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I live near this college and attended it. It is a VERY liberal school that is very open to others beliefs/transitions/customs. It is not uncommon at all to see cross dressers or transgendered individuals all over campus. In fact in our town it is very common. So anyone using the swimming pool cannot be very surprised. It is the culture of the school. They have a nude beach and welcome everyone equally. There is many other pools and facilities to use all over town that don't allow transgendered in. If others have issues they can use those other pools. I also object to the term "young girls" It is a college!

GloriaInTX's picture
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"wlillie" wrote:

Read the articles please.

She refuses to believe anything from Fox News so if it isn't in the article that she posted it must not be true.

smsturner's picture
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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

She refuses to believe anything from Fox News so if it isn't in the article that she posted it must not be true.

You two just aren't understanding me I think. Let me say again. THE SIX YEAR OLDS THAT SUPPOSEDLY USE THE LOCKER ROOM WERE NOT THERE TO SEE.
That's it. That's all i said to check out. Feel free to mention it over and over, but I'm not pointing it out again.

Joined: 05/23/12
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"indigoV51" wrote:

I live near this college and attended it. It is a VERY liberal school that is very open to others beliefs/transitions/customs. It is not uncommon at all to see cross dressers or transgendered individuals all over campus. In fact in our town it is very common. So anyone using the swimming pool cannot be very surprised. It is the culture of the school. They have a nude beach and welcome everyone equally. There is many other pools and facilities to use all over town that don't allow transgendered in. If others have issues they can use those other pools. I also object to the term "young girls" It is a college!

Young girls use this college. And unless the rules specifically state in a clear location that locker rooms are for mixed genders it is not fair to expect anything. Anything does not go. A person is not allowed to show their privates to others; ordinarily that would be called indecent exposure regardless of viewer's age.

Joined: 05/23/12
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"smsturner" wrote:

You two just aren't understanding me I think. Let me say again. THE SIX YEAR OLDS THAT SUPPOSEDLY USE THE LOCKER ROOM WERE NOT THERE TO SEE.
That's it. That's all i said to check out. Feel free to mention it over and over, but I'm not pointing it out again.

What reference do You bring to support the statement that 6 yo's were not there?

The issue is that girls as young as 6 often use this locker room at this college. Otherwise parents would not be outraged. The man was sprawled out naked in the sauna. Imo no one needsto be sprawled out naked. Omg i would vomit right there.

GloriaInTX's picture
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"indigoV51" wrote:

I also object to the term "young girls" It is a college!

Students from nearby Olympia High School as well as children at a local swimming club share locker rooms with the college.

According to a police report, the mother of a 17-year-old girl complained after her daughter saw the transgender individual walking naked in the locker room. A female swim coach confronted the man sprawled out in a sauna exposing himself. She ordered him to leave and called police.

The coach later apologized when she discovered the man was transgendered but explained there were girls using the facility as young as six years old who weren?t used to seeing male genitals.

It doesn't actually say if there were children who saw him, but the coach said there were 6 year old girls using the facility.

smsturner's picture
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"myyams" wrote:

Young girls use this college. And unless the rules specifically state in a clear location that locker rooms are for mixed genders it is not fair to expect anything. Anything does not go. A person is not allowed to show their privates to others; ordinarily that would be called indecent exposure regardless of viewer's age.

The state law says that these state locations cannot discriminate on the basis of gender identification. Doesn't that qualify as a rule??

And the last part, that is crazy. That means that ANY person at all, could never ever be naked in a locker room with other people in it ever. Or they will all be criminially charged.

"myyams" wrote:

What reference do You bring to support the statement that 6 yo's were not there?

It says so in the original FOX news article. seriously. it does. I'm curious to know why anyone would have their 6 year olds in a college locker room anyway actually.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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From past transgendered debates I can tell you that legally your gender does not change until you have your anatomy is changed. I would be VERY upset if a 45 year old man showed my girls his genitilia.

If an area is openly transgender with nudity of either gender, it should not be accessible to any minors.

wlillie's picture
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"smsturner" wrote:

The state law says that these state locations cannot discriminate on the basis of gender identification. Doesn't that qualify as a rule??

And the last part, that is crazy. That means that ANY person at all, could never ever be naked in a locker room with other people in it ever. Or they will all be criminially charged.

It says so in the original FOX news article. seriously. it does. I'm curious to know why anyone would have their 6 year olds in a college locker room anyway actually.

Can you find that state law? Because the wording in the article doesn't sound right to me.

I bet the college has a nice pool and the local clubs/organizations/schools use it and pay a fee to be able to do so. My tee tiny college did the same thing and our facilities didn't even boast a sauna.

Susan, Please Read the Articles.

ClairesMommy's picture
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Our pools have family changerooms. You go in there, don't be surprised to see some penises. Enter at own peril. Female locker rooms are for females. Not for men who identify as females. And all this talk about whether or not there were 6 year olds in the room....like, who cares about the age? Should it be more acceptable to an 18 year old?

Joined: 05/23/12
Posts: 680

Seriously with laws like this child molesters would move there by the groves for their visual et al playground. Since when should something like this be allowed? At most beaches except for known nude beaches, a certain amount of clothing is required. In public streets a certain amount of clothing is required. Locker rooms are not private. They are public but we do have some expectation that opposite genders will not be exposing himself. Even women should not be sitting in a sauna with their legs wide open like that. So that tells me something is not right with that person anyway.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
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I wouldn't feel comfortable having an exposed penis in the locker room while I'm changing myself or my children, no how the person in question identifies herself. Maybe it's mean of me, but I do think that if you KNOW that you are in a special circumstance that will make the people around you extremely uncomfortable (like having a penis in a women's locker room) the right thing to do is to at least be more discrete about it. The fact that she was just hanging out with her penis swinging in the breeze seems a bit excessive. I understand that maybe she would not feel comfortable changing in the men's room (because why? Because she foesn't want to be exposed to all of those naked penises??? Maybe she could remember that other women feel the same way.) but then I think an easy enough solution would be to change in a bathroom stall or something, rather than just being obnoxious and sitting around naked as you please where everyone can see her and get totally weirded out.

ftmom's picture
Joined: 09/04/06
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I honestly cant believe that this person was offended and surprised by this reaction. How is anyone supposed to know you are transgendered when you are naked? Honestly, If I walked into a womans change room and there was a man walking around naked, I wouldnt stop to ask him what gender he identified with, I would simply go complain and expect the staff to have him removed. She had to have known this would happen.

My biggest issue with this, isnt that this particular woman is in the womans locker room. If she had been more discreet it would not be an issue at all. My problem is that allowing someone with male genitalia to change in the locker room with young ladies and girls, is that it opens up for a pedophile to claim he is allowed in there because he is transgendered. There is no way to 'prove' what gender you identify with and while I dont believe that this guy dressed as a woman for 3 years just to go into the girls locker room, you open yourself to a situation where the staff is not able to differentiate between legitimate and bogus claims and this could put young people at risk.

Our pool has a family changing room where there are large stalls to change in in addition to the men and womans room. It is used by men, women and children. I dont believe asking a transgendered person to use a room like this is discrimination, as I think everyone's safety and rights are important. Not just the transgendered persons.

Jokr's picture
Joined: 04/19/12
Posts: 282

Many places now have 'family' change rooms, and in fact our local university has officially made transgendered washrooms and change rooms, but honetly, that kind of construction and building modification is very time consuming and costly - not many places have extra money like that in their budget!
However yes, children use our university's pool because 1) they run day programs 2) swim teams practice there because the other pools in town are already fully scheduled, and 3) they have public swim times. So it doesn't matter that it's a 'college pool'. I was still a minor when I started college, and I have to say I would be very uncomfortable sharing a change room with someone who had the genitals of the opposite gender.
Personally I don't care what gender you are comfortable with, until you have the surgery, either use the family change rooms, or use the room that matches your genitals.

Also - does this open the door for pedophiles to now go into the women's change room at a public pool (so there would be many kids around, not just high school swim team members), and say they've "secretly" been transgendered and feel they're a woman, so therefore they should be allowed in a change room with young girls?

Yes she feels as though she is being discriminated against, however the rights of the people using the facility still have to be respected - they have a right to feel safe in a very vulnerable area.
And the solution, of making the swim team now use the smaller change room so she can have full access to the larger change room also seems a bit backwards to me....

Joined: 05/23/12
Posts: 680

Another thought I have on this is that locker rooms are not segregated based on sexual preference but are segregated solely on pieces and parts. So a gay person has to use the locker rooms with straight people and that to me is like a field day. I mean think about how young guys get so nutso over women's bodies. I cant see why a gay guy wouldnt feel that way about a guy, right (using guy only as an example). Anyway we dont segregate based in anything except parts with zero regard for what each person regards himself or desires for himself. So this is the way we view these things as a nation, which is logical to me, and therefore not discriminating against his parts because we segregate based on physical not mental. Yah it doesnt get to be ok because someone cries transgender or whatever without tangible proof, like a medical cert - for proof of a parts match.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6561

In the area that I grew up there was one state college. That college was used for everything in that town because they had the best facilities. I am not familiar with this college, but in that town children use the college facilities all the time.

ClairesMommy's picture
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"ftmom" wrote:

I honestly cant believe that this person was offended and surprised by this reaction. How is anyone supposed to know you are transgendered when you are naked? Honestly, If I walked into a womans change room and there was a man walking around naked, I wouldnt stop to ask him what gender he identified with, I would simply go complain and expect the staff to have him removed. She had to have known this would happen.

My biggest issue with this, isnt that this particular woman is in the womans locker room. If she had been more discreet it would not be an issue at all. My problem is that allowing someone with male genitalia to change in the locker room with young ladies and girls, is that it opens up for a pedophile to claim he is allowed in there because he is transgendered. There is no way to 'prove' what gender you identify with and while I dont believe that this guy dressed as a woman for 3 years just to go into the girls locker room, you open yourself to a situation where the staff is not able to differentiate between legitimate and bogus claims and this could put young people at risk.

Our pool has a family changing room where there are large stalls to change in in addition to the men and womans room. It is used by men, women and children. I dont believe asking a transgendered person to use a room like this is discrimination, as I think everyone's safety and rights are important. Not just the transgendered persons.

That's a good point. I'd be more apt to say "WTF are you doing?" than intuitively know he was transgendered and felt more comfortable in the women's change room.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

I did want to say that I found "College Allows Transgender Man to Expose Himself to Little Girls" to be a really over the top sensationalistic headline for this article. "College Allows Transgender Man to Use Women's Locker Room" would probably be more accurate. I don't think the college is like "Totally, expose yourself to little girls, we're down with that..." Lol

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6561

"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I did want to say that I found "College Allows Transgender Man to Expose Himself to Little Girls" to be a really over the top sensationalistic headline for this article. "College Allows Transgender Man to Use Women's Locker Room" would probably be more accurate. I don't think the college is like "Totally, expose yourself to little girls, we're down with that..." Lol

To say a woman's locker room would imply that only woman used the locker room when in fact little girls do use the locker room.

ClairesMommy's picture
Joined: 08/15/06
Posts: 2299

"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

To say a woman's locker room would imply that only woman used the locker room when in fact little girls do use the locker room.

Maybe I'm not fully understanding what you mean Bonita, but whenever I see "Women's" on a locker room I assume there will be girls in there too, even little boys.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6561

Alissa was saying that Fox's title was over dramatic. I was saying that not having little girls in the title does not portray the situation. I would not be happy if this happened in front of me, but I would be livid if it happened in front of my girls.

Joined: 08/17/04
Posts: 2226

If he is obeying the law then he is right. I don't agree but he's right.

I'm not okay with this. Gender Identity is something subjective and I think does open doors for pedophiles (we'll use men and young children here but I am well aware that's not the only instance) to use that as a defense to expose themselves. I'm not being insensitive for those with gender identity concerns but either way it is unfair and I have to be unfair to the adult than a child or another innocent person who may not expect it.

I would be in line with someone in the middle of a sex change to complete sex change being able to use the gender's room that they are assigning to. "looks the part" so to speak and makes others comfortable.

I'm not a fan of rules that allow for the comfort of one at the expense of most others.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6561

"Jessica80" wrote:

If he is obeying the law then he is right. I don't agree but he's right.

How is he obeying the law? I am completely open to being wrong, but I thought until your sex change was complete and your birth certificate changed you have to use the rest room/changing room that your genitals fit with. Does this very by state?

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

Alissa was saying that Fox's title was over dramatic. I was saying that not having little girls in the title does not portray the situation. I would not be happy if this happened in front of me, but I would be livid if it happened in front of my girls.

I do think "Allows to Expose Himself to Little Girls" is overly dramatic.

How about " "College Allows Transgender Man to Use Women's Locker Room Despite Possible Presence of Children"

Joined: 04/12/03
Posts: 1686

Transgendered does not equal pervert. These are two very different things and the mere fact that a person is in the women's locker room does not mean they aren't a pervert.

Many male pedophiles could just hide out in the men's locker room/restroom to sneak a peek at young boys changing. Or expose himself to them.

Let's say this person who has a penis was sitting in the sauna with legs spread apart. Would there still be the outrage if it was the men's locker room and 6 YO boys might be in there? If so, then this isn't really about a person with a penis in the women's sauna; it's about the behavior itself. Would the public support his right to expose himself to young boys solely because he is in the same locker room as them?

*If* the reason for the public display or "claiming" to be transgendered is to get sexually aroused by it, then the person is clearly in the wrong and possibly committing a crime.

GloriaInTX's picture
Joined: 07/29/08
Posts: 4116

"ethanwinfield" wrote:

Let's say this person who has a penis was sitting in the sauna with legs spread apart. Would there still be the outrage if it was the men's locker room and 6 YO boys might be in there? If so, then this isn't really about a person with a penis in the women's sauna; it's about the behavior itself. Would the public support his right to expose himself to young boys solely because he is in the same locker room as them?

No there wouldn't be the same outrage because a little boy would have the same thing so he wouldn't be shocked by seeing that. It wouldn't be any different than using a men's restroom where they see the same thing. That is completely different than a 6 year old girl that is not used to seeing an adult male naked.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

Yes, I am not at all saying that transgendered = pervert, I'm just saying that there should be a little sensitivity that most women and girls are not comfortable seeing strange penises in the locker room where they are changing.

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