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Thread: Universal basic income

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    I do feel that people need to earn their money. But there are also times when they can't. Life happens and things go wrong. Right now Rob can't work. The cancer took his ability to work away from him. But because I make more than a welfare income we can't get disability allowance. So it is all on me to support out whole family. If there was a guaranteed income then I wouldn't have to worry about whether I can feed us. I feel that we need to support each other as a community and a society. We currently do this with welfare and the system sucks. I would rather everyone have an income and be able to eat regardless as to what life throws at us. Rob would happily work and contribute to society and our family financially but he can't. And the contributions he can make are not enough or financial. So we would be going hungry so the kids wouldn't, except that family, friends and food banks have come through hugely and very kindly. It is all good to say that people need to earn their keep, but sometimes that just can't happen. I am a socialist and an idealist though, so I am ok with taking care of each other.
    It is terrible when situations like cancer happen. Disability is there to pay for situations like that. It is unfortunate when situations like that happen. That is not the same as paying able bodied people who just don't want to work just for breathing.

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  2. #12
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    So where will this income come from if everyone decides to stay home? Why wouldn't everyone stay home if they had the choice?

    I think a few people need to watch this:

    A lesson in Socialism - YouTube


    One think to think about... the reason people can only buy FOOD with food stamps is to keep people from spending it all on things they shouldn't so the kids will get fed. So what happens when these people spend their money on drugs or alcohol and the kids are going hungry? Sorry we already gave you your money?
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    Why does the article call it "Star Trek economics"? There's nothing about that on Star Trek.

    Anyway I don't get it at all. Why would we pay everybody for nothing when they are ready willing & able to work? I'm a socialist in many ways, I think we need to fix the welfare system but I think we need it. Disability, we need. But I'm also a capitalist and I think there's something great about working for a living. And how does it make sense to hand over money to rich people who don't need it?

    Nothing about this idea makes sense to me.
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  4. #14
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    I'm with Laurie, I don't really get it.
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    I get the Star Trek reference in that in that show people do not earn money. They work, but also everything is free. "They are too evolved to have crime or poverty" That said, Star Trek is make believe and not at all realistic.

    ~Bonita~

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I get the Star Trek reference in that in that show people do not earn money. They work, but also everything is free. "They are too evolved to have crime or poverty" That said, Star Trek is make believe and not at all realistic.
    But that's the opposite. In this scenario, people would earn money for not doing anything. as opposed to not earning money for doing something noble. And things wouldn't be free. So that's why I don't get how it's a Star Trek scenario.

    But whatever, I'm a nerd, so it rankles me. It's not really relevant!
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    So where will this income come from if everyone decides to stay home? Why wouldn't everyone stay home if they had the choice?

    I think a few people need to watch this:

    A lesson in Socialism - YouTube


    One think to think about... the reason people can only buy FOOD with food stamps is to keep people from spending it all on things they shouldn't so the kids will get fed. So what happens when these people spend their money on drugs or alcohol and the kids are going hungry? Sorry we already gave you your money?
    I'm only going to address the bolded.
    It's not human nature to do nothing It often comes up in debates regarding parents who stay at home with their children and those who work outside the home. Not everyone works for a paycheck.

    Honestly, it is such a foriegn concept to me that if given the choice most people would choose not to work.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    I'm only going to address the bolded.
    It's not human nature to do nothing It often comes up in debates regarding parents who stay at home with their children and those who work outside the home. Not everyone works for a paycheck.

    Honestly, it is such a foriegn concept to me that if given the choice most people would choose not to work.
    There are a great many that would not. In a scenario like this, the people who are honourable and do work would be forced to pay for the bums that do not want to do anything but watch TV all day.

    It would be like if I told my girls to clean their room. Alyssa hurried up and cleaned her room and did a great job. Brianna who doesn't like to clean her room putters around and doesn't clean her room. When Alyssa is done cleaning her room I tell her that she now has to go clean Brianna's room too. It is punishing those that work hard and rewarding those that do not.

    ~Bonita~

  9. #19
    Posting Addict fuchsiasky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    It is terrible when situations like cancer happen. Disability is there to pay for situations like that. It is unfortunate when situations like that happen. That is not the same as paying able bodied people who just don't want to work just for breathing.
    But Disability isn't there for us. We have been denied. Once because it could have been a preexisting condition and once because I make too much (the threshold for a couple is less than $2000 a month!). We will try for a pension. If that fails, that's it. No income. Period. The system sucks.

    What if I had been able to take time off to care for him? I was useless when he was sick. I had so much on my plate it was crazy! I was told by my docs to take time off...and I couldn't. No income. There are many reasons to not work that are very valid. This is but one. There will always be people who take advantage and are lazy. We currently pay them to breath as they are prime candidates for the welfare system already.
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  10. #20
    Prolific Poster Danifo's Avatar
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    I think there are different things going on here.

    My dad is on disability and I am grateful he has it. He did have to get rid of every investment he had other than a place of residence before he could qualify. He gets less than that amount and money is pretty tight but he didn't have enough saved for retirement by the time he had to stop working due to his MS. If something happened to my husband we would have to rethink our lives because even with the amount of disability he would get from his work, we could not maintain our current life on my salary. I think people hit with some kind of disease should get something, maybe comparable to the Canadian mat leave benefits where you get a percentage of your previous salary for a year. By that point, you will either be through the disease and back to work or you have time to adjust your life permanently.

    My step brother (self made wealthy) has essentially given that amount to each of his brothers, wives and as their children become adults for years. He bought their houses. He will pay for any education and living expenses. Instead of telling their kids "you can do anything. if you have a dream, your uncle will do anything he can (money/connections) to help you make it happen" the kids got told "you don't need to do anything because your uncle will take care of you" My step brother has bailed them out of bankruptcy by paying off all debts twice and there is currently a fight over a third time because he will only do it if they go to financial counseling. I fail to understand how they can have that much debt when they get so much money and their house is paid for.

    I don't like able bodied/minded people receiving guarenteed money for doing nothing.

    As an aside, I do work in cancer research I really like it but I wouldn't go to work if they didn't pay me. If everyone was given that amount, I would have to make considerably more that that to keep going to work instead of staying home with the girls. Daycare already has trouble getting qualified people and they would pay somewhere around that. You might get more artists but why would you work at a fast food place?
    Last edited by Danifo; 10-19-2013 at 07:28 AM.
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