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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I know of many, many people that would stay home with their kids if they had the opportunity. People who would retire if they could and are just putting in time until they are old enough. The loss in job force would not make this situation possible. There are many undesirable low wage jobs out there. Who would fill those positions.
    Why is it a bad thing that people would stay home and raise their children if they had the financial opportunity? How did we fill all the jobs when the norm was for women to stay at home with children and people to retire at 55? The age of retirement has definitely shifted to at least 60.

    Why is the nation better off to spend X amount of dollars on welfare benefits than only 50% of X to eliminate welfare all together?

    Truth is, the American public is not really ready for paradigm shifts regardless of their value. We'll spend dollars to save dimes if it means we don't have to change our ways.

  2. #32
    Prolific Poster Danifo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    My understanding is that everyone gets it regardless of how much they earn otherwise. If you earn nothing, you would get $2800/month. If you earn $30000/monthy you would still get it.
    I think then lower wager earners would then see a decrease in their wages because they already get enough to get by without working. Plus, I can't imagine the uproar over the top 1% or prisoners receiving this supplement.

    I really do like the idea of people not having to struggle or worry about food and shelter. I like the idea of the automatic payment because it would take out the huge cost of bureaucracy that can consume many assistance programs. I just have trouble picturing it working. Maybe it is just some of the people I know but I think they would take advantage of the system.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    Why is it a bad thing that people would stay home and raise their children if they had the financial opportunity? How did we fill all the jobs when the norm was for women to stay at home with children and people to retire at 55? The age of retirement has definitely shifted to at least 60.
    I obviously do not think it is a bad thing for one parent to stay home with their kids or for people to retire at age 55. I just do not think that this is the right way to go about it.

    ~Bonita~

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    You're placing your value judgments on others.

    The majority of the people I know and encounter on a daily basis would work. They might find a different job that they enjoy more, but they would still work. What motivates people to volunteer their time? What motivates people who are multi-millionaires to keep working?

    .
    I do not think this is true of most people. And I don't see the value in supplementing the income of people who don't need it.

    I am am getting severance now and many of my friends are jealous (not in a mean way) and would love to he getting paid without working. And I work in a pretty desirable field.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    Why is it a bad thing that people would stay home and raise their children if they had the financial opportunity? How did we fill all the jobs when the norm was for women to stay at home with children and people to retire at 55? The age of retirement has definitely shifted to at least 60.
    In Canada it is 65 although some people retire earlier. There is talk of it increasing retirement age to 70. My dad actually went back to work after retiring as he was bored with staying home. Personally I do better when working, I need the routine in my life. I am medically unable to go back to work for at least 2 years and maybe never full-time again

    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    CPP Disability is our last hope. $800 a month would help so much right now, as little as it is. If we don't get that we are in a bit of financial trouble. At least there are food banks and such. And I can't get a second job or a better one right now as Rob can't take Kaiya to school and my job allows me great flexibility to do what we need. They have been so kind to us! When she is older I will have to find a job that pays more. And we won't be able to help DSD with a place to live while she is in college. She will have to move out after highschool so we can downsize. It has completely changed our lives and if Rob had an income it wouldn't have.

    I didn't realize with my great support that it was money for all. I am completely behind a guaranteed income supplement, but I think if you are making that much or more that you shouldn't get the money. I would love to see a living wage for all so that if you drop below a certain amount (like the $2800 a month) then you get supplemented. I am sure many people would love to make more money than that! But the poverty that welfare inflicts isn't actually helpful. A guaranteed living amount that is enough to live off of would help IMO.
    I didn't mean to complain as I know $800/month is a lot, just we are used to having more money and are changing our spending but still have credit issues. We are trying to do a debt consolidation otherwise we have to declare bankruptcy. We do not spend lavishly but had to use our credit to buy things like groceries, pay our mortgage. I only qualify for CPP as any income support my DH makes too much (ie over $20,000 for a family of 3). We are getting some assistance now from our church which is very helpful. I really hope your DH qualifies. I just got another letter and they are requesting more information from my specialist.

    And I agree that a guaranteed living amount would be helpful. Then again, we are both Canadian and used to socialism and do not think it is evil.

    BTW, does BC have a low income working benefit that you would be eligible. We won't qualify until after next tax season but in Alberta we have a working benefit for low income. You get it around the same day as child tax benefit and you get more at back to school time.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    How did we fill all the jobs when the norm was for women to stay at home with children and people to retire at 55?
    This was never the norm. It is not economically feasible. There were a few years of adjustment after WW2 when millions of workers were lying in shallow graves across Europe and Asia when some governments thought this would be the ideal and wrote tax codes to support this ideal. But it never panned out. How could it? In every society around the world almost everyone has contributed to the economy in some manner. Now we take kids and the elderly out of the equation, so we need to fill those spots as well. Countries which remove one gender en masse from the economy are places like Afghanistan. Functioning economy? Of course not. Not everyone can be a Victorian baroness, and only a few people ever were! Of course there are people who can truly afford to have a family setup where one person is taken out of the economy, but those families are few and far between in every country.

    The entire point of socialism is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." Socialism is about working, finding ways for everyone to work. Working, playing our roles in our community, these are beautiful, meaningful acts. There are so many people who do not understand the value of this, however. There are people who wouldn't even volunteer their time if they were unemployed and not caring for others in their home. They would sit at home and watch tv. Part of that is the culture, of course. Work isn't as valued in many cultures as it should be. People actually look down on janitors and McDonald's workers. Who are working and putting into the economy and for unbelievably crap pay. Like Ethanwinfield says, there needs to be a huge paradigm shift.

  7. #37
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    I actually like this idea of pay for all. It would make a HUGE difference in our lives if I brought in a small paycheck every month. But OK, people think that there would be a lack of workers, so why not tie it to being part of the workforce, with some exemptions. If you have a job you are guaranteed a living wage, if you have kids you can take time out of the 'workforce' and be a professional parent, if you are injured you have a guaranteed income. There would still be some bureaucracy too it, but if it is tied to your taxes and everyone gets the same pay no matter what their spouse makes, etc, it would remove a lot of it.

    Here if you live in a northern town you get a northern allowance, which is a guaranteed amount every month to account for a higher cost of living. I am not sure if you get it if you are unemployed though. We are a 'B' list town, so we just get a break on our taxes for living northern.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom2robbie View Post

    I didn't mean to complain as I know $800/month is a lot, just we are used to having more money and are changing our spending but still have credit issues. We are trying to do a debt consolidation otherwise we have to declare bankruptcy. We do not spend lavishly but had to use our credit to buy things like groceries, pay our mortgage. I only qualify for CPP as any income support my DH makes too much (ie over $20,000 for a family of 3). We are getting some assistance now from our church which is very helpful. I really hope your DH qualifies. I just got another letter and they are requesting more information from my specialist.

    And I agree that a guaranteed living amount would be helpful. Then again, we are both Canadian and used to socialism and do not think it is evil.

    BTW, does BC have a low income working benefit that you would be eligible. We won't qualify until after next tax season but in Alberta we have a working benefit for low income. You get it around the same day as child tax benefit and you get more at back to school time.
    I didn't think you were complaining! Not at all. It isn't much and he used to make more. It sucks to be in this position. We may be eligible for more tax benefits though. I am really hoping so. There is a big one that we will get because of his income level and that may get us rent supplements and things like that. We shall see. Good luck dealing with CPP. I hope you get approved!
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  9. #39
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    I can't find the question where someone asked, who would work fast food jobs? I loved working in restaurants, I did it for the better part of 20 years. But the fact was that there was no way I could support a family on that income, and I was reaching a point in my life where family was important, so I got a degree in something I like doing so that I could get a job that I don't mind doing, that can support the family I wanted to have. I'd have been quite happy working in restaurants if I had some extra income to supplement it. Also, my husband is an unknown artist which means he basically makes no money if he's not working a job he hates. When he lost his latest-hate-it-office job when I was pregnant with Tiven, we decided he would be a stay-at-home dad for a while. It's now been ten years, and while we're lucky to be able to scrape by on my income, it would be great if he could get paid something for being an awesome dad.

    I work for the state and we lose good people every single month to industry jobs that pay more. It's becoming a brain drain. Because the state can't match the salary levels, people who *want* to work for the good of the people are *not* doing it because it's not good for their personal bottom line. I've made the decision to stay here because there's no way I would find the flexibility I have here, in an industry job. I don't want to work 60 hours a week, I want to leave early for soccer practice a few weeks in the fall & spring, and I want to telecommute at least one day a week. I couldn't do that in a lot of other jobs so the trade-off is acceptable to me at this point. Again, it would be nice if there was a bit of a cushion for those of us who are choosing to do lower-paying work for the good of the people.

    Would those of you opposed to it be OK with the concept of universal basic income if it phased out at the higher incomes?
    Last edited by Spacers; 10-21-2013 at 12:21 AM.
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    I would not, but I am also not a socialist. I did not realise so many on this board were. (That that it is bad, I just didn't realise)

    ~Bonita~

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