V day arrangementa for areas of loss and difficulty

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V day arrangementa for areas of loss and difficulty

I am not really sure how the situation is in NY and any other affected areas at this point. But i wanted to discuss if perhaps there should be some sort of special voting arrangments made or perhaps if V Day itself should be moved?

Thoughts?

Joined: 05/23/12
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I just saw an article on cnn about this same thing

Extra day of voting possible in New York - CNN.com

I am happy to see they are considering this.

Joined: 04/12/03
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Did you read the comments under the article? I hadn't thought about it, but some of them are right. It would actually be unconstitutional for them to have a second day or any other day of voting.

I can't imagine allowing a state to vote the day after all the other results are in.

Joined: 05/23/12
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Honestly I didn't consider that! Do you think knowing who is ahead or behind could create a different outcome? What do you think would happen?

Also, why not push the entire election to later in the month when people have water, gas, electricity, and a place to stay? Aren't there a lot of displaced people?

I mean, suppose your house was destroyed, it's cold, you have no gas, money is tight, you're living ...wherever? and it's V day. How unlikely is an average person to try to get out in all of this and vote? I saw a video of a woman crying out that she thinks they are going to die. Their state was really bad.

So maybe I'd say just a post poned election in times of tragedy? I think that is reasonable.

Joined: 05/23/12
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I was trying to get an idea of the current situation as I have no family etc there. So I found this report:

Posted: Nov 04, 2012 9:03 AM CST
Updated: Nov 05, 2012 7:44 AM CST

Read more: http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19997193/new-storm-may-bring-wind-rain-to-sandy-hit-region#ixzz2BMANbsEX

New storm may bring wind, rain to Sandy-hit region - New York News | NYC Breaking News

NEW YORK (AP) - Shivering victims of Superstorm Sandy went to church Sunday to pray for deliverance as cold weather settling in across the New York metropolitan region — and another powerful storm forecast for the middle of the week — added to their misfortunes and deepened the gloom.

With overnight temperatures sinking into the 30s and hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses still without electricity, New York City officials handed out blankets and urged people to go to temporary warming shelters set up during the day at senior citizen centers.

At the same time, government leaders began to grapple with a daunting, longer-term problem: where to find housing for the tens of thousands of people whose homes could be uninhabitable for weeks or months because of a combination of storm damage and cold weather.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg said 30,000 to 40,000 New Yorkers may need to be relocated — a monumental task in a city where housing is scarce and fiercely expensive — though he said that number would probably drop to 20,000 within a couple of weeks as power is restored in more places.

In a heavily flooded Staten Island neighborhood, Sara Zavala spent the night under two blankets and layers of clothing because the power was out. She had a propane heater but turned it on for only a couple of hours in the morning. She did not want to sleep with it running at night.

"When I woke up, I was like, 'It's freezing.' And I thought, 'This can't go on too much longer,'" said Zavala, a nursing home admissions coordinator.

On a basketball court flanked by powerless apartment buildings in the Far Rockaway section of Queens, volunteers for the city handed out bagels, diapers, water, blankets and other necessities. Genice Josey filled a garbage bag until it was bulging.

"Nights are the worst because you feel like you're outside when you're inside," said Josey, who sleeps under three blankets and wears longjohns under her pajamas. "You shiver yourself to sleep." She added: "It's like we're going back to barbaric times where we had to go find food and clothing and shelter."

Six days after Sandy slammed into the New Jersey coastline in an assault that killed more than 100 people in 10 states, gasoline shortages persisted across the region, though odd-even rationing got under way in northern New Jersey in an echo of the gas crises of the 1970s. More than 900,000 homes and businesses were still without power in New Jersey, and nearly 700,000 in New York City, its northern suburbs and Long Island.

With more subways running and most city schools reopening on Monday, large swaths of the city were getting back to something resembling normal. But the coming week could bring new challenges, namely an Election Day without power in hundreds of polling places, and a nor'easter expected hit the area by Wednesday, with the potential for 55 mph gusts and more beach erosion, flooding and rain.

"Well, the first storm flooded me out, and my landlord tells me there's a big crack in the ceiling, so I guess there's a chance this storm could do more damage," John Lewis said at a shelter in New Rochelle, N.Y. "I was hoping to get back in there sooner rather than later, but it doesn't look good."

Voting machines in hundreds of locations will be operating on generator power, some polling stations are being moved and there are likely to be delays in reporting election results in a few closely contested races because of extended deadlines for counting ballots cast by mail.

Churchgoers packed the pews Sunday in parkas, scarves and boots and looked for solace in faith.

At the chilly Church of St. Rose in Belmar, N.J., its streets still slippery with foul-smelling mud, Roman Catholic Bishop David O'Connell assured parishioners: "There's more good, and there's more joy, and there's more happiness in life than there is the opposite. And it will be back."

In the heart of the Staten Island disaster zone, the Rev. Steve Martino of Movement Church headed a volunteer effort that had scores of people delivering supplies in grocery carts and cleaning out ruined homes. Around midday, the work stopped, and volunteer and victim alike bowed their heads in prayer.

In the crowd was Stacie Piacentino. After a singularly difficult week, she said, "it's good to feel God again."

After the abrupt cancellation of Sunday's New York City Marathon, some of those who had been planning to run the 26.2-mile race through the city streets instead volunteered their time, handing out toothbrushes, batteries, sweatshirts and others supplies on Staten Island.

Thousands of other athletes from around the world ran anyway inside Central Park, where a little more than four laps around it amounted to a marathon. "A lot of people just want to finish what they've started," said Lance Svendsen, organizer of a group called Run Anyway.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo said New York state is facing "a massive, massive housing problem" for those whose neighborhoods or buildings are in such bad shape that they won't have power for weeks or months.

"I don't know that anybody has ever taken this number of people and found housing for them overnight," Bloomberg said. "We don't have a lot of empty housing in this city," he added. "We're not going to let anybody go sleeping in the streets. ... But it's a challenge, and we're working on it."

The mayor and the governor gave no details of where and how the victims might be housed. After Hurricanes Katrina and Rita smashed the Gulf Coast in 2005, hundreds of thousands of victims were put up by the Federal Emergency Management Agency in trailers, hotels, cruise ships and apartments across several states for months and even years.

On Staten Island, emergency management officials distributed leaflets urging people to take shelter from the cold. But "people are apprehensive and don't want to leave their houses. It's a definite problem," said Fred Melendez, who helped run a shelter at Tottenville High School that was nearly empty of storm victims Sunday afternoon.

Fearing looters, Nick Veros and his relatives were hoping to hold out in their storm-damaged Staten Island home until power was restored. He figured the indoor temperature would plunge into the 40s.

"If we get two consecutive below-freezing days, I'm probably going to have to drain the water out of the pipes," he said, "and then we'll have to get out of the house."

___

Read more: New storm may bring wind, rain to Sandy-hit region - New York News | NYC Breaking News

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
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"myyams" wrote:

Also, why not push the entire election to later in the month when people have water, gas, electricity, and a place to stay? Aren't there a lot of displaced people?

My heart bleeds for the people of NYC and NJ. I was talking on FB to my cousin who lives in Brooklyn yesterday. Even the people without damage are suffering from gas shortages. She said there is no gas to go to the grocery store, plus no gas to heat or cook with. Terrible situation. That said, I will have a heart attack if we have to endure another month of this election. They have made arrangements to make sure everyone is able to vote. NY is going to go blue regardless.

Joined: 04/12/03
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They can't push it later - congress has set the first Tuesday after the first Monday in Novemeber.

Hmmm....good. Thing they don't require ID. Oh wiat, that still wouldn't be an excuse becauseeveryone would have ID if they wanted to vote. Sorry I know that is snarky, but don't you think there are valid reasons for not having an ID e.g., hurricane?

KimPossible's picture
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Talking frankly and not meaning to de-value anyones vote, but I think enough people in NYC will be able to successfully vote in order to not change the outcome for the state of NY as a whole. Now had it been even worse than it was, and closer to the election, i would have said it might make a difference. Upstate is very different from NYC, so to lose a majority of those votes might actually make a difference, but perhaps not. Glad we don't have to test the theory out!

And putting aside the constitutionality of the problem....letting people vote after they know how the election has played out for the most part would definitely change/affect the voting.

Kind of interesting to think about though. I don't think it would cause people to vote differently than they wanted to....perhaps swing voters? What it might do is get people who weren't going to bother to vote go vote, which that doesn't seem so bad Smile Not suggesting this is a good way to go...just thinking about the possibilities if it were to have ever been played out that way.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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In cases of really special circumstances (like natural disasters) I think it would be reasonable to move the vote til a little later when things calm down. ethanwinfield - I know you are arguing the unconstitutionality of it, and maybe that means it's too late for this particular election cycle, but I wouldn't mind if if they made an amendment for future elections saying that it can be delayed in the case of a declared state of emergency or something along those lines. It just seems really unfair to me that eligible voters who want to vote can't because of a natural disaster, and we're supposed to just say "Oh well, sucks for them."

ETA: I meant to say that they would move it for everyone officially. Continue with any early voting programs that states have in place, but push the official nationwide V day back a reasonable amount of time to get things under control so people can reasonably be expected to vote if they want.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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"KimPossible" wrote:

Talking frankly and not meaning to de-value anyones vote, but I think enough people in NYC will be able to successfully vote in order to not change the outcome for the state of NY as a whole. Now had it been even worse than it was, and closer to the election, i would have said it might make a difference. Upstate is very different from NYC, so to lose a majority of those votes might actually make a difference, but perhaps not. Glad we don't have to test the theory out!

I agree that many people from NYC will still vote and the state will still go Blue. It is also a valid point that the rest of NY is different than NYC. If you were to cut of NYC from the rest of NY they would be much like PA. I grew up in WNY and still have a lot of family there who are all very strong republican. That said, even in WNY they are not the majority but more evenly split.

Joined: 04/12/03
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They can't push it later - congress has set the first Tuesday after the first Monday in Novemeber.

Hmmm....good. Thing they don't require ID. Oh wiat, that still wouldn't be an excuse becauseeveryone would have ID if they wanted to vote. Sorry I know that is snarky, but don't you think there are valid reasons for not having an ID e.g., hurricane?

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
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My husband has been an elections official for many years. This is only the second election in about 20 years that he hasn't worked. Part of his training included what to do in the event of various scenarios. Lack of gas shouldn't be a problem because all precincts are small enough to walk to your polling place. Something like localized flooding or a nearby fire might require moving the precinct to a safer place; in that case the old precinct would be well-marked, all routes to the old precinct would be well-marked, and a poll worker would stay as close to the old precinct as possible to direct people to the new precinct. If there's no power, and a generator isn't an option, the precinct should provide paper ballots for provisional voting. If all else fails, then local election officials have the authority to hand out and collect ballots from wherever they can safely set up within the boundaries of the precinct -- in front of a supermarket, in the back of their van, in someone else's garage -- and send poll workers door to door to let people know of the change. Election officials can & will send workers from another precinct to help out, and they can & will ask local high schools & colleges for help; anyone over the age of 18 can help with certain jobs and teachers will often give credit to students who help on election day. There's no excuse for anyone to NOT vote ON election day.

Joined: 05/23/12
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This is really good information. From what I understand but am not sure if still possibly necessary is that there was some trouble in getting setup to vote, perhaps due to damage and conditions.

"Spacers" wrote:

My husband has been an elections official for many years. This is only the second election in about 20 years that he hasn't worked. Part of his training included what to do in the event of various scenarios. Lack of gas shouldn't be a problem because all precincts are small enough to walk to your polling place. Something like localized flooding or a nearby fire might require moving the precinct to a safer place; in that case the old precinct would be well-marked, all routes to the old precinct would be well-marked, and a poll worker would stay as close to the old precinct as possible to direct people to the new precinct. If there's no power, and a generator isn't an option, the precinct should provide paper ballots for provisional voting. If all else fails, then local election officials have the authority to hand out and collect ballots from wherever they can safely set up within the boundaries of the precinct -- in front of a supermarket, in the back of their van, in someone else's garage -- and send poll workers door to door to let people know of the change. Election officials can & will send workers from another precinct to help out, and they can & will ask local high schools & colleges for help; anyone over the age of 18 can help with certain jobs and teachers will often give credit to students who help on election day. There's no excuse for anyone to NOT vote ON election day.
AlyssaEimers's picture
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Although I still do not think the election should be pushed back, there are people that will not be able to vote. My BIL is a part of the National Guard. So he (Along with the rest of his unit and other units all over NY) was moved from WNY to NYC to help deal with the situation. None of those people will be able to vote because it is too late to absentee vote and they can not go home to vote.

Spacers's picture
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Yeah, the article linked above seemed to imply that the biggest problem so far is that venues aren't cleaned up enough for workers to leave the machines and some areas are still without power. Those aren't unsolvable problems. My husband has delivered machines at 4am on election day to places where they couldn't be delivered earlier. One year his election department van broke down so the election department hired a courier service to deliver replacement ballots that afternoon and my husband collected ballot boxes in a taxi that night to deliver to city hall.

Funny story, when we got pregnant with Weston, the estimated date of conception was November 4th, election day. DH said, there's no way that's my kid, LOL, since he worked almost non-stop the day before, after, and on election day. He even slept at city hall instead of try to get home for less than four hours.

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"Spacers" wrote:

Funny story, when we got pregnant with Weston, the estimated date of conception was November 4th, election day. DH said, there's no way that's my kid, LOL, since he worked almost non-stop the day before, after, and on election day. He even slept at city hall instead of try to get home for less than four hours.

Funny. As an aside OT bit. My brother's birthday is Nov. 4th. (yesterday) It has been his birthday on election day several years.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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Nov 4th is my brother's birthday as well. Smile

AlyssaEimers's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Nov 4th is my brother's birthday as well. Smile

Something makes me think we talked about this last year on the TTCAL board.

Spacers's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

Although I still do not think the election should be pushed back, there are people that will not be able to vote. My BIL is a part of the National Guard. So he (Along with the rest of his unit and other units all over NY) was moved from WNY to NYC to help deal with the situation. None of those people will be able to vote because it is too late to absentee vote and they can not go home to vote.

He could have voted before he left. He can vote provisionally at any precinct in the state; only those races where he is eligible to vote will be counted, so his vote for mayor or local rep won't count, but state propositions and statewide positions will count, and so will president. If he thought ahead and took his ballot with him, he can fax it to his local elections department; this requires an additional form waiving his right to a secret ballot, but at least his vote will count. And some counties have sample ballots online that can be printed out so even if he didn't take his ballot, he might still be able to get one. Or someone at home can scan a ballot & email it to him, and he can fax it to the elections department. I'm very surprised that his squadron leaders didn't give him all of this information.

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"Spacers" wrote:

He could have voted before he left. He can vote provisionally at any precinct in the state; only those races where he is eligible to vote will be counted, so his vote for mayor or local rep won't count, but state propositions and statewide positions will count, and so will president. If he thought ahead and took his ballot with him, he can fax it to his local elections department; this requires an additional form waiving his right to a secret ballot, but at least his vote will count. And some counties have sample ballots online that can be printed out so even if he didn't take his ballot, he might still be able to get one. Or someone at home can scan a ballot & email it to him, and he can fax it to the elections department. I'm very surprised that his squadron leaders didn't give him all of this information.

I didn't actually talk to him, I talked to my mother who talked to him. So it is possible that there was a breakdown in communication some where. I can understand how when just picking up and leaving for an undetermined amount of time with about 24 hours notice it would be easy to forget that you might be gone over election day.

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DH called my BIL in NYC. They really are not able to vote. DH called their senator's office in NY and they are looking into it. I feel really bad. I hope DH did not cause any trouble because he gave them his name.

GloriaInTX's picture
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I'm much more concerned about these military who may not be able to vote, since it is purely because someone screwed up. A natural disaster I can understand, but this should not be happening to those whose vote should count the most.

Senators: Thousands of Troops May Not Get to Vote | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

Spacers's picture
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I do hope someone does look into it! IMHO your DH did the right thing by bringing it to the attention of someone who can do something. I don't know how election procedures work in the other states (I'm in California) but it would be appalling if someone helping out in a disaster like this was prevented from casting his or her vote.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

I'm much more concerned about these military who may not be able to vote, since it is purely because someone screwed up. A natural disaster I can understand, but this should not be happening to those whose vote should count the most.

Shouldn't everyone's votes count the most?

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"Spacers" wrote:

Shouldn't everyone's votes count the most?

No. I much more concerned that those who are serving our country especially overseas should have their votes counted than ANYONE else. They are paying the price for us so that we have the right to vote.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

I'm much more concerned about these military who may not be able to vote, since it is purely because someone screwed up. A natural disaster I can understand, but this should not be happening to those whose vote should count the most.

Senators: Thousands of Troops May Not Get to Vote | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

"Spacers" wrote:

Shouldn't everyone's votes count the most?

"GloriaInTX" wrote:

No. I much more concerned that those who are serving our country especially overseas should have their votes counted than ANYONE else. They are paying the price for us so that we have the right to vote.

Everyone's vote has to be equal in order for democracy to work. We need to make sure everyone can exercise their right to vote and have their vote counted.

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Double post

Spacers's picture
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Leave it to Fox News to make drama where there is none, or at least not nearly as much as they claim. Yes, it seems that some absentee ballots have gone missing, but this isn't the dark ages where we have to depend on USPS for these things. All military personnel have access to the internet and, thusly, to their ballot. And they've been given lots of information recently about how & where to vote.

"We have sent eight email reminders to all Service members with a ".mil" address informing them of their right to vote and providing information on how to vote. The 9th and final email will go out the week of October 28th. PSA voting spots are airing every 30 minutes on six channels."
http://www.fvap.gov/resources/media/dod_2012_voter_assistance.pdf

Here is a website where any military person who is already registered to vote can print their local ballot; if a local ballot is not available, they can at least get a Federal Write-In Absentee Ballot. Some election departments accept faxed ballots. Even if a ballot has to be mailed back, ballots can be delivered after election day (NY extended the deadline for everyone, not just military, to November 19th) as long as they are postmarked on or before election day. You can even print a postage-paid envelope template. Please feel free to pass it along to any military members or overseas citizens who are complaining about this issue. There is no excuse for anyone, short of being tied up or knocked unconcious for the better part of the day, to not vote.
Federal Voting Assistance Program - Home - To Vote Absentee, Start By Telling Us Who You Are

wlillie's picture
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That tops Susan's comment. There are plenty of military members who don't have access to either the internet or a printer let alone a fax machine; not to mention the fact that mail is definitely slower overseas than it is here and it's less reliable. There is no excuse for anyone stateside (that includes New York-I would guess the candidates/campaigns are going to make it happen) to not vote; there are plenty for military members.

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Posts: 2226

"Spacers" wrote:

My husband has been an elections official for many years. This is only the second election in about 20 years that he hasn't worked. Part of his training included what to do in the event of various scenarios. Lack of gas shouldn't be a problem because all precincts are small enough to walk to your polling place. Something like localized flooding or a nearby fire might require moving the precinct to a safer place; in that case the old precinct would be well-marked, all routes to the old precinct would be well-marked, and a poll worker would stay as close to the old precinct as possible to direct people to the new precinct. If there's no power, and a generator isn't an option, the precinct should provide paper ballots for provisional voting. If all else fails, then local election officials have the authority to hand out and collect ballots from wherever they can safely set up within the boundaries of the precinct -- in front of a supermarket, in the back of their van, in someone else's garage -- and send poll workers door to door to let people know of the change. Election officials can & will send workers from another precinct to help out, and they can & will ask local high schools & colleges for help; anyone over the age of 18 can help with certain jobs and teachers will often give credit to students who help on election day. There's no excuse for anyone to NOT vote ON election day.

This can't be true for everywhere. We have 1 polling place in town. It's temporarily moved. The new one is 15 minute drive across town for us. There is no way to walk there without spending at least 2 hours walking. Probably 45-1hr by bike.