Voting Bigotry?

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Voting Bigotry?

Is not voting for a candidate solely because of what Religion they are, wrong?

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That's a hard one. I think for me I take into account (or atleast try to) a candidates morality, view on world issues and civil rights, feelings on tolerance, etc. It is a fact that ones religion dictates a lot of how a person feels on those issues and other key issues. But I also take into account their actions because though they may be one religion on paper their actions may show they are different from the generalized perception of that religion.

So short answer, no it's not wrong, but it is wrong to ONLY take that into account.

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No. You can vote for whoever you feel is the best candidate for whatever reason you so choose.

Religion does play a role in who someone is. If someone says proudly that they are a particular religion it can be inferred that they believe certain things. If someone said they were a Muslim, and that they believed in Sharia law I would not vote for that person. That does not mean that I hate them or wish ill of them, just that I would not vote them as President of the USA.

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Happened here last year. We had a municipal election and our new mayor is Muslim. I know many people who voted for him or against him based on that reason alone. Thankfully he was the best candidate for the job and still won based on his political platform and views on a wide range of topics. So, kind of to echo what Lana already said, to vote for or against a candidate because of their religion and no other reason is wrong.

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I think its wrong, but people will do it anyway.

However if a candidate explicitly indicates that his government policies will fall in line with his religious beliefs and that he practices his religion by the book. Then i have enough knowledge to know if his policies will not be something i support. I that case, i think it would be ok.

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It just seems too vague to me, like, well, it's okay if that is part of your reason but if it is your only reason it's wrong. Why?

I would not vote for Romney because he is a Mormon. I would not vote for a Jehova Witness either. Or like a Satanist, OH and absolutely not a Scientologist. Pretty much any other Religion wouldn't matter all that much to me. I wasn't sure if that was an okay thing to admit, or not Smile Looks like not.

I can't take anyone who wears magic underwear seriously. I am sure that that will get me flamed. I just question if some logic chip is missing.

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People vote in line with who they relate with and who they think will represent their interests. There is no way to know ahead of time exactly what kind of officer that person will be. The only thing you can do, is use clues as who that person is to find out. Religion is one way to know what a person might stand for.

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you know, i don't think there is any easy way to answer this really. I think there will be times when someone will take religion into consideration and it makes sense or at least seems reasonable, and there will be other times where religion will hold more weight than it should due to prejudicial reasons. I think its going to vary from one instance to the next.

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Why would it be wrong? Religion is more important to some than others. If it is the most important thing in my life of course I am going to base my voting on religion. It is my vote to cast as I see fit.

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Personally, I think yes, it is wrong.

I've heard some debates come up on the republican side over this. Could an evangelical christian who may view mormons as a cult, vote for a mormon? Would it be less morally offensive to vote for someone who has cheated on his wife, but has asked god for forgiveness?

My opinion on both is that your bedroom and place of worship should stay out of topics of political value.

With that said, I believe that one's religion will affect that person's choices and actions. For me as long as they are a good person and I think I can trust them I can good regardless of what faith they are.

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"Potter75" wrote:

I would not vote for Romney because he is a Mormon. I would not vote for a Jehova Witness either.

Not going to flame you Wink , but I am curious for your reasons on these two?

I know quite a few mormons and Jehova Witness throughout my life and they definitely changed my previous stereotype of those particular religions and now I view them just as I would any other 'mainstream' religion.

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"elleon17" wrote:

Could an evangelical christian who may view mormons as a cult, vote for a mormon?

I know many would disagree (including DH), but I would say yes. If a Mormon had the same principles as I do I would still vote for that person. Now the Mormon who is currently running for office does not have very many of the same principles I do so it is a mute point.

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"Potter75" wrote:

I can't take anyone who wears magic underwear seriously. I am sure that that will get me flamed. I just question if some logic chip is missing.

It's no different than any other religious tradition though. It just seems (perhaps) more strange because it's not the major religion in the US. Believing that dinosaurs roamed the earth with humans, elephants were tiny enough to fit on the ark with every other creature, virgin birth, believing a piece of bread and some wine literally become the body and blood of Christ which is then eaten, etc...all likely seen as equally crazy by those in countries where Christianity is not the majority. I understand why people would vote for or against someone based on their religion (or absence of an organized belief system). I would prefer to vote for someone with a strong internal moral compass who will vote with their conscience even if it went against the written doctrine of their formal religion (i.e. recognizing that every human being deserves equal rights regardless of bigoted and antiquated biblical verse regarding same-sex unions or women/blacks being inferior, etc).

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"elleon17" wrote:

Not going to flame you Wink , but I am curious for your reasons on these two?

I find them theologically whack, to use a formal term Smile

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I think it's a person's right to vote who they want for what ever reasons they want. I would prefer that people looked at the broader picture though and didn't just focus on a single attribute of any single person who is running for public office.

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I don't disagree Karly, but I see the symbolic and historic value of those things and their interrelatedness to oral and religious tradition from the beginning of recorded history. Not so with the underwear. I'm of course using that tongue in cheek, there are lots more reasons than just the garments that I distrust the specific religions I mentioned.

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"elleon17" wrote:

I've heard some debates come up on the republican side over this. Could an evangelical christian who may view mormons as a cult, vote for a mormon? Would it be less morally offensive to vote for someone who has cheated on his wife, but has asked god for forgiveness?

My opinion on both is that your bedroom and place of worship should stay out of topics of political value.

I think it depends on what your other options are. If I had to choose between Obama who claims to be a Christian and Romney who is a Mormon I would choose Romney because based on the moral values Obama has portrayed I don't think he is much of a Christian either so they are on equal ground so I would make my decision on other factors.

If I were to choose between Romney and Newt I would choose Newt because most other factors being pretty equal I would choose the Christian over the Mormon.

I do however think your bedroom does have a place in politics because I am also voting on the character of the man and if he is willing to lie and cheat I think it says something about his character. But if it happened 20 years ago and he has asked forgiveness and has been faithful to his current wife for that period of time I can believe that he has learned from his mistakes.

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"Potter75" wrote:

I don't disagree Karly, but I see the symbolic and historic value of those things and their interrelatedness to oral and religious tradition from the beginning of recorded history. Not so with the underwear. I'm of course using that tongue in cheek, there are lots more reasons than just the garments that I distrust the specific religions I mentioned.

Can you expound on this some? I have heard people I respect talk about the aspects they find disturbing about the Mormon religion as ex-members...but I guess I wonder if someone like Romney is really more disturbing than someone like Bachmann (who gets whacky messages from God and orders from her husband all the live long day)? I don't know that much about Romney's religion per se, but he doesn't seem to tout it or seem very hung up on recruitment. Do we even know if he wears the magic underwear? Wink

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Ok, admitting my ignorance. Magic underwear?

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Well, he went on a mission, so I don't know that I would agree with the recruitment aspect. I wouldn't vote for Bachman for the exact reasons you mentioned, though.......what I'd really like is a nice peaceful buddhist to run Smile (Though that probably would not bode well for my family fiances as they are contingent on heavy handed DOD spending!!!

I don't know how to proceed without sortov seeming to bash a religion, so will just say that I feel uncomfortable with someone holding some of those beliefs and running our country. I fully recognize that it might be inconsistent or illogical.

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"Claire'sMommy" wrote:

Happened here last year. We had a municipal election and our new mayor is Muslim. I know many people who voted for him or against him based on that reason alone. Thankfully he was the best candidate for the job and still won based on his political platform and views on a wide range of topics. So, kind of to echo what Lana already said, to vote for or against a candidate because of their religion and no other reason is wrong.

That happened where I am too - but seeing as you are in Canada I have a feeling we are from the same area....I remember many people being upset that he won because they didn't agree with his religious background. He has been very impressive to date on what he has done and he has stuck to his platform quite well.

Personally, I think there are quite a few other things to base your vote on then soley their religious background. But if people vote based on religion (which you see more in the States than in Canada), people could be just selling them selves short with their candidate choice...

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Melis ~ I am down for a Buddhist to run as well. Smile

As for Romney going on a mission...well, he was 21. We all did some stupid sh!t at 21, didn't we? Okay, maybe just me. Wink Honestly, I would love more information about him currently ascribing to Mormonism. I am just not sure he's a Mormon in more than an cultural context. (Which is fine by me, but just sayin').

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The only reason I find it hard to believe that it is just cultural to him is that I think that it works against him, politically. I have a hard time believing anyone would lay claim to a religion that they didn't believe in and hurt them politically, you know?

In his words:

[h=2]Mitt Romney on His Mormon Faith[/h]Mitt Romney
December 7, 2007
There are some […] would prefer it if I would simply distance myself from my religion, say that it is more a tradition than my personal conviction, or disavow one or another of its precepts. That I will not do. I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers - I will be true to them and to my beliefs. Some believe that such a confession of my faith will sink my candidacy. If they are right, so be it. But I think they underestimate the American people. Americans do not respect believers of convenience. Americans tire of those who would jettison their beliefs, even to gain the world.

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I think, when it comes to politics, it's a lot more important if someone holds liberal, moderate, or conservative views than the general religion to which they belong. For example, I wouldn't have much of a problem voting for a candidate who told me she is a Christian and attends the United Church of Christ, but I most likely would not vote for a Southern Baptist. Both are Christians, but their beliefs on crucial (to me) issues are probably vastly different.

The Mormon issue is a little bit different. Mormons are still a lot more homogenous than your average group of protestants. If a protestant espouses views that are too liberal or conservative for the comfort level of her church, she can easily move to another without much problem. A Mormon doesn't have such choices if she wishes to stay LDS. The LDS church is a very top down, authoritarian organization that will excommunicate members, leaving them without a place of worship, church community, and sometimes friends and family. That is a lot of power to have over someone. I don't think it's anywhere near "bigotry" to admit that this situation might be of great concern.

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I think it works against Romney to be Mormon because of perceptions about that faith, but I think it would hurt him more to not have religion. I guess I think it would be impossible for him to distance himself from a Mormon upbringing so he would have to make the best of it and at least come off as a committed believer of a religion. As in that quote above, I think he is trying to show he is not "wishy washy" in his faith, more than he believes in the power of the Mormon undergarments. Anyway, not trying to defend Romney in any particular way, though I do think he is less bat****crazy in regard to religion and listening to a higher power than some of the very conservative right wingers. I can understand why people use religion in choosing a leader, but unless you are choosing based on having a leader of your own personal religion, it's hard to see how one can judge one belief system as "whackier" than the next. It's understandable to have "feelings" toward certain religions (or absence of organized religion), but in the end, we should likely acknowledge that faith is personal and unknowable for certain...if we prefer one belief system over another, it is likely just because we are more comfortable with that faith because of years of indoctrination into mainstream culture.

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I also meant to say, in regard to the OP, that I don't think basing voting decisions on religious preference is bigotry, simply because one's religion is a choice (as opposed to bias based on skin color, sexual orientation, etc). If the candidates wanted to not have religion factor into voter decisions, they could always choose not to comment (and face those repercussions in their polls).

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I disagree, but that's okay. I think that it is very easy to call certain religions wacky, and some wackier than the next. Scientology is simply wacky. My line on wacky is different than others, and that is as formed by what I know firsthand of those religions from experiences with them as my preference for some may be due to "years of indoctrination into mainstream culture".

ETA: I also agree with Bobbie, word for word

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I am not exactly sure where we disagree as I agree with your last statement, Melissa. My only point was that "whacky" is relative and based on what we find culturally "normal." If one were raised on a Mormon compound, that lifestyle might seem as reasonable as mainstream Christian beliefs seem to someone raised in middle America. Just as someone in Switzerland or New Zealand (where it is more the majority to not have religious beliefs), might think find the whole idea of a leader using any kind of religion as their political mooring to be an oddity. Anyway, we all have our personal comfort levels.

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I don't think there is anything wrong with voting (or not) based on religion (or any other factor). That is the whole point of democracy. You get to vote for whoever you think is best and base those reason on whatever factors you value.

Now, I may think someone's reasons are stupid, but it is their vote to do what they like with it. There is not "wrong" way to decide. Judge according to what is most important to you, be it economic policy, religion, gender, or whatever.

Oh and I totally agree with Melissa, religion says a lot about a person and their general beliefs. There are some religions that would be deal breakers for me come voting time.

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"Potter75" wrote:

It just seems too vague to me, like, well, it's okay if that is part of your reason but if it is your only reason it's wrong. Why?

I would not vote for Romney because he is a Mormon. I would not vote for a Jehova Witness either. Or like a Satanist, OH and absolutely not a Scientologist. Pretty much any other Religion wouldn't matter all that much to me. I wasn't sure if that was an okay thing to admit, or not Smile Looks like not.

I can't take anyone who wears magic underwear seriously. I am sure that that will get me flamed. I just question if some logic chip is missing.

To answer the OP question, yes I think it's wrong if that's the ONLY reason that you're voting for that person. I think someone should be voted into office on a number of reasons, not just one. I think it's just as wrong to vote for someone solely based on the color of their skin, which I think happened a lot in the last presidential election.

And to the bolden, LDS don't think their underwear is magic in any way, so I don't understand this statement. They wear it for many reasons. One for the length, as they won't wear anything shorter than it to remail virtuous and not dress innapropriately (or what they deem innapropriate). There are small stitches on it to remind them to always tell the truth and to remind them to pray. I'm not LDS, but DH is, so I couldn't help but respond to this. I don't agree at all with their religion, but I wouldn't not vote for Romney based on this if I felt he were the best candidate for the job.

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"Starryblue702" wrote:

And to the bolden, LDS don't think their underwear is magic in any way, so I don't understand this statement. They wear it for many reasons. One for the length, as they won't wear anything shorter than it to remail virtuous and not dress innapropriately (or what they deem innapropriate). There are small stitches on it to remind them to always tell the truth and to remind them to pray. I'm not LDS, but DH is, so I couldn't help but respond to this. I don't agree at all with their religion, but I wouldn't not vote for Romney based on this if I felt he were the best candidate for the job.

Huh, that surprises me about your DH after reading the story of how the two of you got together! I thought most Mormons had pretty strict rules about certain things, but I guess there are different levels of belief in any faith.

Anyway, I think that the garmies are truly bizarre. Anyone is welcome to disagree and argue that they are normal, of course.

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Mormon garments are believed to protect the wearer from harm to a certain extent. Protection from evil and temptation. Since clearly, the thin silky material isn't physically protective, the power must come from some kind of magic though, right? Wink

I would vote against someone based simply on their religion but never vote for someone based simply on their religion. Did I word that right? Any politician with a belief in an extreme religion would make me very wary. And I'm extra put off by LDS due to personal reasons, plus it's part of the Mormon plan to have a leader of theirs be POTUS.

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I wouldn't vote or not vote for someone based solely on their religion, but I would take into account the things that religion teaches and whether or not the candidate espouses those same beliefs. So for example, if a candidate is a Southern Baptist, that in and of itself is not enough to make me not vote for them. But, I know that the Southern Baptist church is typically fairly anti-gay marriage. That "cause" is important to me, so I would pay attention to that, and want an answer about the candidates feelings on gay marriage. If the candidate said "I disagree with gay marriage because it's against my religion" then I wouldn't vote for them. If they said "My religion states that gay marriage is wrong, so I will never enter into a gay marriage, but I believe that every citizen should have the right to make that decision for themselves" then I would vote for them (assuming I agreed with them on other platforms and thought they were the best person for the job.

On the same token, I wouldn't vote for an atheist simply because they were an atheist. I would *want* to agree with them more, maybe, but at the end of the day if they happened to be a politically conservative atheist (rare, but they do exist) then I would have to go with the other guy.

So, I think it's sensible to acknowlege that of course religion is going to be a part of someone's identity and world view, but I still think it's important to hear what a candidate actually says about the issues that matter to you. If I only voted for people who professed to have similar religious views as I do, I would never vote. Wink

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"Potter75" wrote:

Huh, that surprises me about your DH after reading the story of how the two of you got together! I thought most Mormons had pretty strict rules about certain things, but I guess there are different levels of belief in any faith.

Anyway, I think that the garmies are truly bizarre. Anyone is welcome to disagree and argue that they are normal, of course.

I know what you mean, but as with any religion I think that the assumption is made that whether someone be Christian, Mormon, Catholic, that for that reason you're not allowed to do anything sinful or wrong. We all make mistakes, and I think it's what we learn from them that define us as people. True, I'm ashamed of how we got together and I would NEVER do anything like that again, and even though I'm a Christian I still do things that I shouldn't do now and then.

I think the underwear are bizarre as well, I just wanted to point out that they really don't think that they're magic or protect them at all lol...

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I think that the assumption is made that whether someone be Christian, Mormon, Catholic, that for that reason you're not allowed to do anything sinful or wrong

Yeah........I'm not saying that religious people should not do anything sinful or wrong. However, CERTAIN things, when done by "religious" people are especially egregiously hypocritical and judgment worthy. Like, I probably wouldn't see a mormon litter and think "A-HA! GOTCHA! YOU AREN"T A GOOD MORMON AT ALL!!!!". But, if I were to see one, say, father two children with different married women at the same time, or something, I admit that it might make me raise an eyebrow. No one cares how anyone else lives as long as it is legal....until that other person states that they ascribe to a certain moral code or something. Once they do make those statements or ascribe to a certain religion which has very clear moral standards, it is in no way wrong of "outsiders" to assume that they are then trying to live by the rules or standards that they embrace.

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"Potter75" wrote:

Yeah........I'm not saying that religious people should not do anything sinful or wrong. However, CERTAIN things, when done by "religious" people are especially egregiously hypocritical and judgment worthy. Like, I probably wouldn't see a mormon litter and think "A-HA! GOTCHA! YOU AREN"T A GOOD MORMON AT ALL!!!!". But, if I were to see one, say, father two children with different married women at the same time, or something, I admit that it might make me raise an eyebrow. No one cares how anyone else lives as long as it is legal....until that other person states that they ascribe to a certain moral code or something. Once they do make those statements or ascribe to a certain religion which has very clear moral standards, it is in no way wrong of "outsiders" to assume that they are then trying to live by the rules or standards that they embrace.

And to add, it is even more glaringly outragious when, as often happens, religious people not only espouse a certain moral code and then try and force it on others....to then break it themselves. It is no coincidence that religions with strict moral codes tend to find their followers who are the most vocal againt the "sinners", are often times the ones who you find later becoming the "sinner" themself.

I don't fault someone for sinning. I just have a problem with people voicing their judgment against others from the roof tops to only become what they wrile against. But then again it is human nature when you are made to feel "wrong" that you become the one who shouts the loudest against your own secret self.

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"culturedmom" wrote:

I don't fault someone for sinning. I just have a problem with people voicing their judgment against others from the roof tops to only become what they wrile against. But then again it is human nature when you are made to feel "wrong" that you become the one who shouts the loudest against your own secret self.

I totally agree. I'm a Christian and always have been, but I know that no one, including myself, is perfect and never will be. I just try to live the best way that I can and follow the Bible the best that I can. I don't judge anyone else because of that, because again, all of us have done wrong in our lives, and it's how we change for the better as a result of it that matters. I might not agree with a lot of things, but I'm not supposed to be anyone's judge.