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  1. #11
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Isn't it her body? Isn't it her choice?
    She could throw herself off her roof onto some strategically placed concrete blocks or something like that, if she really wanted to be paralyzed. She wants it without the pain & trauma that most people have to experience to get there.
    70% of the U.S. population now lives in a state where same-sex marriage is legal. At 36 and counting!

  2. #12
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Default Abortion, Assisted Suicide ment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    She could throw herself off her roof onto some strategically placed concrete blocks or something like that, if she really wanted to be paralyzed. She wants it without the pain & trauma that most people have to experience to get there.
    Are you for death with dignity?

    Why can a dr.. do harm in some peoples opinion but not in others.. either a dr is supposed to value LIFE or not...?

    Yes good TOPIC Gloria.. seems like another natural cross over.
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    It is an interesting point, that's for sure.

    I know that I feel strongly about how a doctor shouldn't perform this procedure, and yet I am 100% pro choice, which I know is what Rivergallery is getting at. (Best to just be direct, no? The question is, how is abortion okay but this isn't?)

    So I need to think about this to figure out how best to express what is different about it, because it is, to me, completely different. I'm heading out to a yoga class soon but I will think on this.
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  4. #14
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    It is an interesting point, that's for sure.

    I know that I feel strongly about how a doctor shouldn't perform this procedure, and yet I am 100% pro choice, which I know is what Rivergallery is getting at. (Best to just be direct, no? The question is, how is abortion okay but this isn't?)

    So I need to think about this to figure out how best to express what is different about it, because it is, to me, completely different. I'm heading out to a yoga class soon but I will think on this.
    Yes, that and Dr. assisted suicide.. aka death with dignity.
    Are they different? if so why?

    To me they are not.. and a Dr. shouldn't be in the business of death or elective surgery..

    Maybe that is the difference.. seeing the abortion more as an elective surgery like liposuction?
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

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    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    In sex change operations, they don't chop off the penis & toss it; they re-fashion it into a vagina.
    Except its not a vagina.

    I don't think the comparison is the same at all. Transgendered people don't have a psychological disorder; they have the wrong body.
    What does that actually mean on a scientific level?

    Surgery corrects that biological mistake,
    But it doesn't really.

    and surgery is the only way to "treat" the problem, and they still end up with a perfectly normal fully-functional body.
    I would disagree that it is fully-functioning. It is functioning in an acceptable manner to them. Ask someone who has lost their penis and did not want to if they would consider them fully functioning if someone fashioned them a vagina. Someone who is a man and wants to be a woman finds their newly surgically altered body acceptably functioning, to them. I think there are a lot of parallels to this woman in the OT.

    I'm really actually undecided about it. The comparison to transgendered surgery makes me go 'hmmm' and makes me have to think about lots of things. My issue is, regardless of social acceptance, i'm going to have a very difficult time accepting one of these scenarios and not the other.

    Surgery would leave her with an abnormal, non-functioning body, and that is not what medicine and doctors are supposed to do.
    Her body will function in a manner acceptable to her.


    Being left a parapeligic is supposed to be the sad result of whatever else they're trying to fix, not the anticipated end result.
    Sure to the average person. What if there is no cure for her mental disorder? What if the only way to appease her desire is to physically alter her body?

  6. #16
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    No. Just no. If she couldn't afford the 16k who the hell does she expect to foot the bill for her incredibly costly lifelong care? She needs psych help stat.
    Oh and i do agree, i would have a problem with this being covered by any insurance..and again...with the transgender comparison it admittedly makes me go 'hmmmm'.

  7. #17
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    I don't agree with a doctor doing this surgery or covered by insurance.

    Being a paraplegic leads to other needs for care, wheelchairs, medical visits, etc. Who is paying that? Clearly not her because over time it's going to be over 16000.

    Why is it different than a sex change?

    I'm not really that excited about insurance covering a sex change but I don't think it has negative connotations. Me turning into a man physically isn't going to automatically lead to a drain on services. I can still be a productive member of society.

    Why is it different than right to choose abortion? It just is to me for the above reason.

    *Please don't think that I think paraplegics do not add to society, that's not what is meant by not being a productive member*
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  8. #18
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post

    Why is it different than a sex change?

    I'm not really that excited about insurance covering a sex change but I don't think it has negative connotations. Me turning into a man physically isn't going to automatically lead to a drain on services. I can still be a productive member of society.
    So the difference here just boils down to a money thing?

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    Well, no. It was previously stated that doctors wouldn't harm and I agree with that too. I don't think abortions harm a woman nor do I think sex changes harm people.

    This does.
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  10. #20
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    Well, no. It was previously stated that doctors wouldn't harm and I agree with that too. I don't think abortions harm a woman nor do I think sex changes harm people.

    This does.
    See I dont' see how you can't say a sex change doesn't harm someone. That would be dependant on the individual. Sex change surgery would most definitely be considered harm to the vast majority of the population....as would what this woman wants.

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