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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    The "psychological disorder" is based on our societal schisms. The definitions of what is or isn't a psychological disorder change. Homosexuality comes to mind right away, it used to be listed in the DSM. Why is it a disorder...? Because you disagree with it.. or because society says so.. or because of something outside of you and society?
    I don't see this as a nebulous thing. Homosexuality was a mistake based on prejudice. There will sometimes be more of those. But I'm the daughter of a therapist, I see these things concretely.

    My disagreement has nothing to do with anything one way or the other. I "disagree" with the idea that Botox makes people more attractive, but I don't think the people who get it have a psychological disorder. I just think it's a bad decision and they look creepy afterwards.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    I so totally see your points.
    And do think that the ones that are so controversial is because of sympathy.. and people dispute the consequences to society for sure.

    It is also interesting to see where these percieved consequences to society come from... Where does our judgement come from.. I think if one has a measure for such things that doesn't change it is valuable. For many this becomes or stems from a religious belief. I think it is helpful if your beliefs do not conflict in matters... and IF you believe abortion is a choice but this isn't.. be able in your own mind explain why.. based on something outside yourself.

    For me I think they are both wrong.. but some things seem ok.. the surgeries that are improving life.. IE knee surgery, toncilectomy etc. However.. my view gets a little blurry on items like liposuction.. it could be wrong I think in cases of pride, or envy (but the pride or envy is the "sin" not the action of liposuction). It would be like saying exercising is always ok.. well in some cases it can be done out of selfishness, vainness etc..

    It is interesting also.. to see WHEN do we want the government to control our choices.. when is it something we as a society shun. From drugs, to surgeries, to birthing children.. we have a wide variety of lines and reasons for them.. And within subgroups the lines even waiver... and they often waiver within each person like we saw in this thread.

    For me there are three categories-
    Sin
    Neither positive nor negative.
    Good.

    BUT, that is because I base most of my views on a religious basis.. others base their views on other things .
    I do agree that there are some awfully wiggly lines in all of this, and grey areas. And of course if you are religious then there are very specific views on abortion and other things, and I get that too.

    But for me it's not about sympathy. I have mountains of sympathy for someone who believes he or she was born of the wrong gender, and very little for someone who gets their lips blown up to be big and puffy, but that's not where I draw the line.
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  3. #43
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    Im having a really hard time seeing the connection to exercise, abortion, boob jobs, or anything else, really. This woman has a serious disorder- she needs psych help. Hurting her would be like a dr helping someone with munchausins (sp) by proxy to harm their child.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Im having a really hard time seeing the connection to exercise, abortion, boob jobs, or anything else, really. This woman has a serious disorder- she needs psych help. Hurting her would be like a dr helping someone with munchausins (sp) by proxy to harm their child.
    There is a philosophical connection, if you want to talk about someone's rights over their own body, but I agree: she is ILL.
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  5. #45
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Im having a really hard time seeing the connection to exercise, abortion, boob jobs, or anything else, really. This woman has a serious disorder- she needs psych help. Hurting her would be like a dr helping someone with munchausins (sp) by proxy to harm their child.
    My point is.. WHY is it a "serious disorder". Why isn't removing other body parts considered equally a "serious disorder"?
    I would contend that we already have dr's harm children because their parents want them to... it is called abortion..
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    My point is.. WHY is it a "serious disorder". Why isn't removing other body parts considered equally a "serious disorder"?
    I would contend that we already have dr's harm children because their parents want them to... it is called abortion..
    You don't see a difference between reducing the size of your breasts or having a mole removed and losing your limbs? No difference there, to you, that might indicate someone needs psychiatric help?

    It isn't considered a serious disorder because it isn't one.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    My point is.. WHY is it a "serious disorder". Why isn't removing other body parts considered equally a "serious disorder"?
    I would contend that we already have dr's harm children because their parents want them to... it is called abortion..
    Are you seriously asking why someone who wants to be permanently entirely paralyzed is a serious disorder?

    And sorry- but people get tonsillectomies or appendectomies for medical reasons- comparing a tonsillectomy to this is illogical.

    And exercising is no more "vain" than washing ones face or brushing ones teeth. Again- no comparison.

  8. #48
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    You don't see a difference between reducing the size of your breasts or having a mole removed and losing your limbs? No difference there, to you, that might indicate someone needs psychiatric help?

    It isn't considered a serious disorder because it isn't one.
    You are still not quite understanding I think.. OUR society put together a list of attributes we label as certifiable.. "disorders" these change all the time, and are basically based on public opinion.
    For example, we would think hanging ourselves from hooks in our chest might be indicative of a psychological disorder, but in other cultures it is a sundance, and abnormal not to do to prove your "manhood".

    The breast reduction and mole removal in our society are usually done for health reasons.. to be healthier.. we are following western medicine's ideas.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    For example, we would think hanging ourselves from hooks in our chest might be indicative of a psychological disorder, but in other cultures it is a sundance, and abnormal not to do to prove your "manhood".
    I think this is a poor example. In your example the culture actually encourages that behavior, by tying a positive trait to doing so. THAT is the motivator....without that motivator, the desire to torture ones self in that manner should disappear.

    So in a society that doesn't have that motivator (like our own society) the desire to torture ones self like that by default has to stem from a psychological disorder.

    ETA: in this culture that does it to prove their manhood...if someone went through with the process and actually enjoyed it to some degree, they would still be considered to have a psychological disorder.
    Last edited by KimPossible; 07-18-2013 at 11:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    You don't see a difference between reducing the size of your breasts or having a mole removed and losing your limbs? No difference there, to you, that might indicate someone needs psychiatric help?

    It isn't considered a serious disorder because it isn't one.
    It can be. What about Michael Jackson?

    Body Dysmorphic Disorder, Cosmetic Surgery Addiction, Plastic Surgery Addiction | The Medical Bag

    Why didn't surgeons refuse to do surgery on this woman?

    Alicia Douvall: Why did nobody stop me becoming the world's most nipped and tucked woman wasting ?1m on 16 boob jobs and an eye-watering 308 cosmetic treatments | Mail Online
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 07-18-2013 at 11:33 AM.
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