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  1. #111
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    I did not know until I was watching the news the other night that the requirement in self-defense cases is a preponderance of the evidence rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt."

  2. #112
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    A man who gets out of his truck to follow someone, then says 'he's running', certainly doesn't seem in fear of his life to me.
    What about someone with a broken nose and his head being pounded into the sidewalk by someone straddling him on the ground? I certainly would have been in fear of my life.
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  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    What about someone with a broken nose and his head being pounded into the sidewalk by someone straddling him on the ground? I certainly would have been in fear of my life.
    He PURSUED him, Gloria. And the ME found that his injuries, as stated above, were inconsistent with GZ's story of being attacked by TM. If he was so fearful for his life then what in the he!! is he doing chasing after a 'perp' who he thought was committing a crime or about to commit a crime in his neighbourhood. Gee whiz, criminals about to commit crimes are often armed, and at the least have the potential to be extremely violent. If you're so afraid of getting hurt or killed then RUN AWAY. FLEE. Call the cops and get the heck out of there. BS he was afraid for his life. Absolute BS.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    He PURSUED him, Gloria. And the ME found that his injuries, as stated above, were inconsistent with GZ's story of being attacked by TM. If he was so fearful for his life then what in the he!! is he doing chasing after a 'perp' who he thought was committing a crime or about to commit a crime in his neighbourhood. Gee whiz, criminals about to commit crimes are often armed, and at the least have the potential to be extremely violent. If you're so afraid of getting hurt or killed then RUN AWAY. FLEE. Call the cops and get the heck out of there. BS he was afraid for his life. Absolute BS.
    Sorry a ME looking at pictures after the fact? The ME did not say they were inconsistent either, all she said was that her opinion was that he might not have been pounded into the concrete as many times as he said. Maybe only 3 times. She testified later that it is possible that he was hit 5 or 6 times. Wow I'm sure that would have made me fear for my life less if I was only pounded into the concrete 3 times instead of 6. How many times would it have happened if he hadn't shot him I wonder? Pretty hard to flee when someone is sitting on top of you.

    Some on the day's most interesting testimony came from Jacksonville's medical examiner, Valerie Rao.

    She did not perform the autopsy on Trayvon. But she reviewed the evidence records in the case and testified that Zimmerman's injuries "were not life-threatening. They were insignificant."

    His bloody, broken nose; his black eyes; the two cuts to the back of his head and the lumps on the sides and top of his head might have come from just three blows, she said, not the numerous blows Zimmerman has said he suffered during an altercation with Trayvon.
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  5. #115
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    An article that closely examines GZ's own words in the taped interviews that have been presented so far, and how the facts simply don't add up. George Zimmerman Trial: Jury Being Asked to Weigh Contradictions

    For the first time in the second-degree-murder trial of George Zimmerman, jurors Monday heard a gripping narrative in the defendant's own words about his fatal shooting of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin.

    But much of what was presented in audio and video recordings of his statements to police investigators didn't quite add up. A close listen to Zimmerman's version of the events reveals contradictions and seemingly implausible facts.

    The tapes start with Zimmerman acknowledging that he followed the 17-year-old as he tried to give the boy's location to a police dispatcher on the phone. He said the altercation began when Trayvon "jumped out of the bushes" and said, "What the [expletive] is your problem, homey?" before saying, "You got a problem now" and punching him in the nose.

    The prosecution played the four statements, including Zimmerman's video re-enactment on the day after the shooting, in its effort to highlight inconsistencies in his account that he shot Trayvon in self-defense. Jurors also were presented with the written statement Zimmerman provided to police in which he repeatedly refers to Trayvon as a "suspect."

    In all the interviews, Zimmerman said he was driving when he saw Trayvon looking "suspicious" while walking through his subdivision on the night of Feb. 26, 2012. Zimmerman said he was concerned in part because Trayvon was outside a home that had been burglarized weeks earlier. Zimmerman added that he'd called police before about someone loitering outside the house.

    He called police and reported Trayvon but lost sight of the teen as he darted between homes, Zimmerman said. Then Trayvon doubled back toward Zimmerman's truck and circled it, he told police. Zimmerman again lost sight of Trayvon and exited his truck and followed him on foot, he said. Seeing no sign of Trayvon, Zimmerman said he began to walk back to his truck when Trayvon appeared and confronted him.

    As they exchanged words, Zimmerman said that he reached in his pants pocket for his cellphone to dial 911. That's when Trayvon punched him, Zimmerman claims. Zimmerman fell on his back, and Trayvon straddled him and began punching him and slamming his head against the sidewalk, Zimmerman told police.

    "I could see people looking," Zimmerman told Sanford, Fla., police Officer Doris Singleton in his first statement just after the shooting. "Somebody yells out, 'I'm calling 911.' I said, 'Help me, help me. He's killing me.' He puts his hand on my nose and on my mouth, and he says, 'You're gonna die tonight' ... I still couldn't breathe, and he still kept trying to hit my head against the pavement ...

    "When he said, 'You're gonna die tonight,' I felt his hand go down on my side. I thought he was going for my firearm. So I grabbed it immediately, and as he banged my head again, I just pulled out my firearm and shot him."

    Zimmerman said he then got on top of Trayvon and spread the teen's arms, pinning him to the ground. He said he told Trayvon, "Stay down, don't move."

    Here are some other contradictions across Zimmerman's various statements and how they conflict with other testimony and evidence:

    * Zimmerman said in his first statement to police, about 90 minutes after the shooting, that he'd exited his truck to check the street name and give the dispatcher an accurate location for police. But in an interview three days later, as lead police investigator Chris Serino pressed Zimmerman about whether he'd pursued Trayvon, Zimmerman said, "I wasn't following. I was just going in the same direction." Serino replied, "That's following, man."

    * Witnesses testified to having heard a longer, louder exchange than what Zimmerman described. In his statements, Zimmerman has changed the alleged words Trayvon used.

    * Zimmerman claims that he screamed repeatedly for help but also that Trayvon used a hand to cover his mouth and nose, cutting off his air supply. Serino played one of the 911 calls for Zimmerman and asked if the screams heard in the background were his. "No, sir," Zimmerman said. Serino also said, "That's you. Are you hearing yourself?" Zimmerman said, "Um, it doesn't sound like me." In the same interview, Officer Singleton said that if Zimmerman's mouth was covered, the screaming would have stopped.

    * Zimmerman said that Trayvon landed up to 30 punches, a claim Serino said in testimony that he didn't believe because his injuries were "minor." He also testified that he doubted Trayvon knocked Zimmerman to the ground with one punch, in part because Zimmerman outweighed the teen by roughly 50 pounds.

    * Zimmerman has said he "felt" Trayvon's hand "go down my side" toward his 9 mm handgun tucked in his waistband, leading him to pull the gun himself and fire it. He has also said that Trayvon saw the gun and reached for it and that he grabbed Trayvon's hand. Zimmerman then used his other hand to pull his gun and fire, he said.

    * Zimmerman said that after shooting Trayvon, he spread his arms and pinned them to the ground. But the first neighbor and first officer to arrive both testified that Trayvon's hands were underneath his body, which was lying facedown.

    * During the video re-enactment at the scene on the following day, Zimmerman told investigators about his injuries. A pair of bandages covered two lacerations on the back of his head allegedly caused by the fight. Zimmerman said, "I could use stitches, but she'd rather not put them in. As long as I didn't mess with my head ... she said she didn't have to put stitches in right away." He was referring to physician's assistant Lindzee Folgate, who treated him after the shooting. Folgate testified that she didn't stitch the cuts, neither of which was longer than 2 centimeters, because they weren't large or deep enough to require them.

    And for someone who claims to have nearly died from a vicious beating -- during which, he says, he yelled, "Help, help me. He's killing me" -- Zimmerman appeared unusually poised and calm in the recordings. Even in his first statement to police recorded just 90 or so minutes after the shooting, his demeanor didn't at all suggest that he'd suffered such a trauma. That may be the biggest contradiction of them all.
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  6. #116
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    Gloria's blind and unyielding insistence of his innocence reminds me EXACTLY of the black mother getting shot for shoplifting. Same refusal to look objectively at any evidence nd total confidence that the black person deserved to die. It's interesting.
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  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Sorry a ME looking at pictures after the fact? The ME did not say they were inconsistent either, all she said was that her opinion was that he might not have been pounded into the concrete as many times as he said. Maybe only 3 times. She testified later that it is possible that he was hit 5 or 6 times. Wow I'm sure that would have made me fear for my life less if I was only pounded into the concrete 3 times instead of 6. How many times would it have happened if he hadn't shot him I wonder? Pretty hard to flee when someone is sitting on top of you.
    If GZ had not taken the law into his own hands TM would be alive to this day. He pursued and confronted an unarmed teen in the dark, armed with a gun. It was TM afraid for his life and he had every right to defend himself. If TM actually had punched him the face and hit his head off the sidewalk what do you think that was in aid of? Beating up some random guy walking by? Trying to rob him? He was fighting for his life and it GZ ended up on the bottom of the scuffle that is of his own doing.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Gloria's blind and unyielding insistence of his innocence reminds me EXACTLY of the black mother getting shot for shoplifting. Same refusal to look objectively at any evidence nd total confidence that the black person deserved to die. It's interesting.
    Well I guess I'm not the only one who is seeing the same thing. It's almost like the prosecution witnesses are losing the case for them. I kind of think they know it is a lost cause so they are bringing up as much as possible to avoid riots when he is found not guilty.

    Poll on HLN right now:

    Who do you think was the aggressor?
    67% Trayvon Martin
    30% George Zimmerman
    3% Not sure

    Do you think Zimmerman will be acquitted?
    71% Yes
    29% No
    http://www.hlntv.com/clusters/george-zimmerman-trial
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 07-03-2013 at 01:43 PM.
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  9. #119
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    As I said earlier, that is pretty harsh to say that GZ deserved to die because he dared to get out of his vehicle to see which way TM was going. So the ME said he was hit at LEAST 3 times, maybe more than half a dozen. How many times would be acceptable to you to have your head pounded into the concrete before you feared for your life?

    The testimony supported the prosecution?s contention of the minor nature of Zimmerman?s injuries. But on cross-examination by defense attorney Mark O?Mara, the medical examiner allowed how different scenarios could lead to more than one strike.

    The attorney and doctor sparred over different possible events, with O?Mara seeking to expand the number of blows and the doctor trying to keep them to no more than three. Rao refused to commit to a specific number of the maximum number of blows that would be consistent with the injuries on Zimmerman, but agreed with scenarios that could be more than half a dozen.

    ?You understand that the extent of injuries is not significant in this case,? O?Mara said toward the end of his cross-examination. The defense?s argument is based on Zimmerman feeling afraid and therefore shot Martin in self-defense.

    ?The next injury he [Zimmerman] would have sustained,? O?Mara asked, ?could that have been life threatening??

    Rao said she didn?t understand the question and the prosecution objected to O?Mara?s implication. The objection was sustained.
    Medical examiner calls Zimmerman's injuries 'very insignificant' - latimes.com
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  10. #120
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    TM didn't deserve to die for walking from the store to a house he had been invited to.
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