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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    It is up to the state to prove. Not Zimmerman to disprove. Innocent until PROVEN guilty. Could possibly be explained won't get a conviction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    I'll admit that I'm not familiar with Florida law and pretty much only know about it from this case, but I have not seen anything that says the state has to prove that Martin attacked Zimmerman first. So I Googled it and here's what I found, with no mention that the state has to prove that the victim attacked first:


    Second Degree Murder - Law Firm Arnold & Sichta, LLC Attorneys Jacksonville, Florida
    This is another one of those weird areas for me. The prosecution doesn't have to prove there was a death and Zimmerman caused it. He has to prove it wasn't self-defense and therefore second degree murder. Yet unless the defense tries to show it was self-defense, there wouldn't be that doubt. Similar to insanity pleas. It's not up to the defense to prove insanity per se, but unless they do try to prove it, the assumption is that they are sane.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    See, this is what bothers me. If I think someone is following me and I am in danger, why can't I strike first? There was a case in San Diego where a woman was jogging and felt the presence of someone getting closer and elbowed him in the nose. I just can't see how if he fought her that *he* would be the one who could claim self-defense. Why do I have to wait until I'm attacked to use force in a place where I have a legal right to be?
    This, exactly. I don't really care if Martin hit Zimmerman first (although from what I've read there was no evidence on Martin's body to suggest that he ever hit Zimmerman at all) - if I'm out walking through my neighborhood and a strange man starts stalking me, at some point I may feel threatened enough to stop running and start fighting. Isn't that what the basis of the "Stand Your Ground" law that Zimmerman is trying to appeal to? That he felt threatened enough to shoot? So it's okay for him to feel threatened enough to shoot a boy in the chest, but it's not okay for a teenager who is being chased to throw a punch? Sorry, I don't buy it. Zimmerman is the one who started the encounter by chasing Martin, and it turns out that IF Martin punched him, he had a very good reason to feel like he was in mortal danger from Zimmerman (as evidenced by the fact that Zimmerman shot him dead) so no, I don't think that Zimmerman can claim self defense on an encounter that he started.

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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Zimmerman is the one who started the encounter by chasing Martin
    That is the problem. The state has NO evidence that happened. There is not a shred of evidence proving that Zimmerman wasn't walking back to his truck as he stated.
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    I have a strong suspicion that the prosecution has evidence or a witness that only the lawyers and court are aware of. Discovery process is over, defence would know who the witness is and already deposed him/her. It will depend on how well they testify in court. Or, maybe some kick a$$ smoking gun evidence.

    She's going for the max she can get - 2nd degree. Can't charge up, but you can plead down. She has room to play with and that's good. She wants a conviction, and I think she will get it, either way.
    Last edited by ClairesMommy; 06-26-2013 at 12:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    That is the problem. The state has NO evidence that happened. There is not a shred of evidence proving that Zimmerman wasn't walking back to his truck as he stated.
    At 7:12pm, Zimmerman reports to the 911 operator that he is following Martin. At 7:13:10 he says, "I don't know where this kid is," indicating that he is still actively looking for & trying to follow Martin. Seconds later, just after telling the operator that he would meet officers back at his truck, he says, "No, have them call me when they get here." He was NOT heading back to his truck. He had found Martin and he was going after him.
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    I do not think they will be able to get a complete jury to be able agree beyond a shadow of doubt that it was not self defence unless there is evidence that I am not aware of.

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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    At 7:12pm, Zimmerman reports to the 911 operator that he is following Martin. At 7:13:10 he says, "I don't know where this kid is," indicating that he is still actively looking for & trying to follow Martin. Seconds later, just after telling the operator that he would meet officers back at his truck, he says, "No, have them call me when they get here." He was NOT heading back to his truck. He had found Martin and he was going after him.
    Actually he WAS heading back to his truck. If you look at the map he was on his way back and had to walk past where the shooting happened to get to his truck after he hung up. Martin also had to have walked back from his house or he would have been long gone by that time, either that or was walking VERY slowly or stopped and waited in that area.

    Interactive map: The Trayvon Martin killing | HLNtv.com
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    I don't believe that map. Zimmerman did not drive his truck to follow Martin; he got out of it and followed him on foot. That is very clear from the 911 call, you can hear the car's door chimes and then wind blowing. He tells the 911 operator that Martin was running toward the back gate, which meant he was heading down the street below the #6. There is supposedly a witness who lives in the second row of houses along that street who says Zimmerman asked her if she saw someone "go that way" which puts him quite a bit farther away than what he's claimed and what that map shows. I can't find a direct link to her statement just allusions to it in comments, and a link to a youtube video that no longer exists.

    Trayvon told his girlfriend on the phone that he was "almost home" (that would be the blue dot in the bottom right corner of the map) but he didn't go home, probably because he didn't want that crazy dude to know what house he was in. I know I wouldn't go straight home if someone crazy was following me! I think Martin turned into the grassy area between the second & third rows of houses, just above where the blue "Martin house" dot is, but he turned left instead of right and went up that walkway that is between/behind the houses. And that's where Zimmerman found him and killed him.
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  9. #39
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    I don't believe that map. Zimmerman did not drive his truck to follow Martin; he got out of it and followed him on foot. That is very clear from the 911 call, you can hear the car's door chimes and then wind blowing. He tells the 911 operator that Martin was running toward the back gate, which meant he was heading down the street below the #6. There is supposedly a witness who lives in the second row of houses along that street who says Zimmerman asked her if she saw someone "go that way" which puts him quite a bit farther away than what he's claimed and what that map shows. I can't find a direct link to her statement just allusions to it in comments, and a link to a youtube video that no longer exists.

    Trayvon told his girlfriend on the phone that he was "almost home" (that would be the blue dot in the bottom right corner of the map) but he didn't go home, probably because he didn't want that crazy dude to know what house he was in. I know I wouldn't go straight home if someone crazy was following me! I think Martin turned into the grassy area between the second & third rows of houses, just above where the blue "Martin house" dot is, but he turned left instead of right and went up that walkway that is between/behind the houses. And that's where Zimmerman found him and killed him.
    So your theory is that Zimmerman purposely set out to kill Martin and from the moment the police got there Zimmerman started lying and making up a completely different story about the path he took on the chance that they might charge him with something?

    If that is what happened I wonder why he bothered wrestling with Martin first why didn't he just take out the gun and shoot him from a distance? Would have been far easier.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    So your theory is that Zimmerman purposely set out to kill Martin and from the moment the police got there Zimmerman started lying and making up a completely different story about the path he took on the chance that they might charge him with something?

    If that is what happened I wonder why he bothered wrestling with Martin first why didn't he just take out the gun and shoot him from a distance? Would have been far easier.
    I don't think that. He didn't see this as an emergency.
    Zimmerman said that’s when he thought to get out of his truck and look for a street sign, because he was still on the phone with non-emergency dispatch and wanted to give the dispatcher more information.
    He's acknowledged following TM and getting out of his truck to "look for a street sign." Yet, this is a neighborhood that he fought to get a neighborhood watch for and patrolled regularly. It wouldn't be necessary to look for a STREET sign on foot. And he really should be familiar enough with patrolling it to know what street he was on.

    *If* he was walking back to the truck and TM started to follow him, why end the call with dispatch? Why not tell her that he thought the guy was now following him. Why did he decide right before the confrontation to tell her to call when the police got there? If TM is the one using a sucker punch and the element of surprise while Zimmerman is walking back to truck, it should have been caught on the recording because Zimmerman had no reason to end the call unless he was doing something other than getting back into his truck.
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