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Thread: i talk to myself so i dont kill people

  1. #41
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    i'm not one to ignore a sign. i try to be observant enough to understand when higher powers are giving me a message.

    so recently i've watched a Sister Wives marathon, and a 19 kids and counting marathon and i thought a while back that we should become catholics mostly for an excuse to have a bunch of kids, and daily as i walk to work i think we should go to a church.

    strange for a pagan.

    so today as i've been wondering where we will find the resources to possibly move and possilby buy a house after our landlord talked to me outside and told me that he's going to have to raise our rent, someone knocked on the door. they were missionaries- Mormons- out spreading the word of God as they see it. and then the offered me a free book of Mormon. shoot me now for saying that i'd read any book that someone handed to me- i won't go hunting for a book, but i'll ready anything you hand to me.

    they are coming tomorrow at 4.

    and then i saw a Mormon banner ad at the top of the page.

    i'm not one to ignore a sign.
    ~Jenni~
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  2. #42
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    x-posted from anything topic board

    I'm going crazy trying to keep this all inside and i think you ladies are going to be great support here, so if you don't want to hear about my cheating husband, the twit he slept with, her supposed miscarraige of his baby, and my issues regarding the whole thing, stop here. its ok. this is NOT pretty. its horrible. just let it go to the bottom of the page and into oblivion.

    Here goes-
    this summer, hubby had a crappy "on call" job and i had to pick up full time (while nursing a 5 month old, and 2.5 yr old) at work to compensate. he's always been crappy with money and horrible at chores but i loved him so, and he is a good guy, everyone has strengths and weaknesses. This girl he grew up with- she's 18, we're both 25- had a nanny job near our apartment and had spare time so when she wasnt working she'd come watch our kids and hang out because she hated living there.

    Well, at some point she decided to take it on herself to never give my hubby a moment of peace, and he always thought of her as a little sister so he put up with it. and he's still all blurry on what happened, he claims he cant figure out or remember why stuff happened, but for sure me and him were having a hard time between us with my work schedule and his lack of income, and he slept with her.

    it went on for two months culminating in a VERY messy expolsion the last week of september. The first week of september she moved in with us because she quit her nanny job that she hated and was willing to babysit our kids in exchange for phone cards and room and board. we had 2 bedrooms,. she slept on the couch.

    Hubby had a cash job bouncing at a bar 30 minutes away 1 night a week and that was one of the times theyd hook up- to and from that job. Otherwise it was usually while i was at work and he was home... .with her.

    he says he wanted it to stop shortly after it started but he couldnt figure out how to stop it and tell me and everything so he just let it continue.

    Anyway, she's NOW claiming she was pregnant with and miscarried his child. She claims she got a positive test the first weekend of august. the only thing he's certain of is that he didnt start sleepign with her until at least the 28th of july. So.. um... NOT HIS. right? (she will probably claim that it happened sooner or that she hadnt slept with anyone else for weeks before that. i'm pretty sure her other ex will corroborate that she DID sleep with him)

    second, i saw her take birthcontrol pills for 2 months, not daily, but i saw frequently, i saw her drink LOTS on several occasions, and we even had discussions about her future children and the importance of prenatal care etc, and she NEVER hd the chance to go for care anywhere, i'm sure of that. she only decided to have alone time out of the house after business hours.

    she claims she miscarried on november 27th. thats like... 18 weeks. thats like giving birth. her facebook status says she "periced her nose" that day among other things, and she was at work the next several days and went on vacation to a cabin with no running water 5 days later. no f-ing way, right? she would not have done that without going to the hospital, and they would have told her to take a couple days off work, and she'd be uncomfortable enough recovering to not want to be without heat or running water to go camping that soon.

    so please tell me that what she said is not freaking possible and she's a crappy liar. her dates and stuff just do NOT make sense!

    this whole thing drives me crazy because i've spent my whole life staying away from this kind of psycho drama, and its really hard for me to figure out what the correct response is to this situation! most people tell me to ignore her and quit talking to her because she's lying and just trying to get attention. we have moved and changed all our phone numbers to get away from this (and the bad karma where we were) and my husband has refused to talk to her since about a week after it all happened, except for a few random messages, which he has stopped responding to. Unfortunatly my MOTHER IN LAW, who i now hate more than ever, TALKS TO HER, and she works in town and has started telling our aquantances what i consider a bunch of lies. luckily they all know she's a psycho.

    i've been going to counseling, but i donn't feel like its resolving anything relationship wise, the counselor is way more interested in breaking the cycle of poverty she perceives us in. and i'm mad at my husband- for even getting us in this mess, which makes it hard to figure out if we should work on our relationship or call it quits.
    ~Jenni~
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  3. #43
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    I just read over this whole thing from the beginning- since i started it.

    I wonder why i put up with all that from him. i guess something in my head has finally changed since we got into that whole mess this fall. I really want to go back and get physically violent with him ON A REGULAR BASIS, for what he put me though. i didn't deserve that.

    How can i tell if he's really growing up and changing for the better? Today Jane told me that Bill actually told her 9:30 to be there, which was half hour before i needed to work, i guess i thought he already knew to do that, but if its the first time she's noticed it, then i guess maybe it is a change. she asked "when did he grow up?"

    Sometimes i feel like people think i'm weak for staying with him so long. I can see how they'd think that. but do they know how much strength it takes to hold on? Its not just the staying together part that takes strength, its the part where you don't go crazy, you keep moving forward, keep living, keep progressing without letting yourself take up drinking to deal with it, thats where the strength lies. I'm not weak. if anybody learns anything from this, it is that i'm not weak.

    Looking back, i guess i can see now that Bubba was more important to me than a successful life partner. i NEEDED another baby. and i couldnt see anything past him. I felt so complete, so right, when Bubba was born. With Ellie there was this huge buildup of love that i already had for her that just came out, with Bubba it was like he was the missing peice of a puzzle that just popped into place and made me whole for the first time.

    What has changed for me lately .... a couple things. my house is kinda clean. pretty clean. yeah it gets messy, but i'm keeping on top of things better, much better in fact. sure there are little messes, but there's always clean laundry, clean dishes, clean counter space (not always a lot of space) enough food and cleaning supplies. things we used to run out of a lot. like its hard to take the trash out without garbage bags- hard to do laundry without detergent, hard to wash dishes without dishsoap.

    and the change comes all from me. all me. i've put certain cleaning things higher on my priority list, but i also don't get all freaking out about them, not sure how that makes sense.

    i would like to attribute some of the changes to having the right THINGS for once- the right apartment, dishwasher and washer/dryer makes a huge difference for me, a couch that i don't want dirty, table and chairs, rug under the table, crib and Ellie's bed both set up correctly, and enough dressers for all our stuff. closets to put away totes full of stuff. A playground right there for Ellie to play, and my own car to run errands as i need to instead of sharing begging, and flipping out when the Mazda malfunctioned or Bill trashed it so bad i couldnt get stuff in and out as needed.

    Right now we only have one credit card bill.
    ~Jenni~
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  4. #44
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    This is a story i've told many times, and it rips my heart out every single time. and it will make the last 2 posts make sense. its not pretty.

    Once upon a time Bill my husband lost his job that he had just gotten at a nice local plumbing supply store where he was a delivery guy and worked 8-5 just a quarter mile from home, with potential overtime and benefits, and luch where he came home to spend with us.

    He fell into a nasty depression. He always fell into it when he got laid off and became useless. He forgot that useless by working doesnt mean useless to me. he became the guy in all those other posts who slept in and stayed out late and didnt' do chores and made bad choices.

    Finally he got a job with a tow truck company. it was supposed to be part time for just a couple weeks, then they'd train him on the big truck and he'd be on call 2 days on 2 days off. instead they never trained him, and instead decided to just run him ON CALL 24/7 for 3 months. little stress? despite being on call- he was lucky to pull in 20 hours a week, usually closer to oh... SIX. yes. we couldnt go swimming, go shopping, go to my parents house.... go to the movies... unless he called and told them he'd be unavaiable for a few hours. and that looks bad and makes them not like you. just to get a break. And we HAD to have a babysitter every time i went to work, which was full time now that he wasnt making much money, so that in case he got a call he could go. sometimes i drove the kids 25 miles to a friends house so that he could sit at home alone all day without any work.

    that job sucked.

    But this friend of his, Jessi, who he grew up with, had a nanny job just a few blocks away, and she started hanging out with us a lot because she hated being there when she wasnt "working" and she watched the kids a lot for us. it was a godsend a lot of the time! finally, i could go to work and someone would take care of the kids!

    But it wasn't perfect. He was still wigging out about this damn job, picked up a bouncing job at a bar in the next town on thursdays, and she was 18 (7 yrs younger) and could go since it was college night, so she went with him all the time. She went swimming with us too, which actually kinda sucked for me. She'd go straight into the water, and so would he, and i'd be stuck on shore with the kids, for some reason i always thought my turn would come.... but it never really did. the last time we went swimming, i never even got to take my dress off..... i never got wet... i waded in the water, carried 2 kids, 2 bags and towels for all of us... never got in the water.....

    He started waiting until i went to work and then making other arrangements- getting a different sitter so he could go mudding... with her.... or so he could go to the fair... with her... he blew a bunch of money doing that. went to all sorts of summer events that i couldnt go to .... because i had to work. and he started losing calls because of it. his job didnt like him much. and then they didnt like him at all. i still remember when he came home and played a message from his boss that said "it doesnt sound like you really have any interest in working if you can't answer calls" and i belived his bull about how he had bad reception etc.

    The beginning of september she moved in with us. I said no, it was a bad idea. i guess he wore me down. He picked up a full time stint at a place he used to work at for the month, worked almost full time. She watched the kids when i was at work. she hung out with me a lot when he was at work. Problem i guess was that i worked weekends and he had them off, and when he was home in the evenings she often talked him in to running errands with her.... had to go to her grandmas to pick up x... go there to work on his truck....

    his friends started asking me... and his brother... if there was something going on between those 2. i found out later that my sisters in-laws saw him with her so much and not me that they thought we had split up early in the summer. my brother in law flipped out one night and txted her a bunch of mean things because he thought something was going on. HER FATHER had a talk with him about it and made him apologize. One time when he was home with me and she was gone, i asked him "why would your brother think that?" and he said "i dont know honey. i love you so much"

    and then he got ready to retake his fire academy test- he failed the first time. it was scheduled to start at 8 am in a town 2 hours away and he wanted to be well rested so he wanted to go down the night before. and i really wanted him to pass. She was supposed to have been going on a trip with a friend that night. i should have known.

    this is where it gets messy.

    When he called me that night he slipped- he said "we found the place" instead of "i found it" and i knew. but i really wanted him to pass the test (2000$ hangs in the balance for our poor budget) and i didnt say anything. to this day i wish i had said something. anything. i knew. and i let it go.

    when he came back the next day is when it all came out. he had "dropped her off" with her firend and "picked her up" and even though he was done with his test by 11 am, he didnt come home until 4....???? WTF.....

    when he got home... he was walking around like i didnt know, nothing was wrong... he was hungry and decided to make himself a quesodilla thingy... and i knew something was wrong, so i was litterally so sick to my stomach that i couldnt function... and i laid down in ellie's bed because i couldnt be in our room. i just coulnt. he kept coming in and asking what was wrong and then walking away refusing to acknowledge that he knew exactly what it was... i dont' know why he did that. Finally he made me a quesodilla because i had said i was mad because he didnt even ask if i was hungry while he was cooking for himself and for HER. he handed it to me- i was still laying down in Ellie's bed. he asked what was wrong again. i whispered "she went with you, didnt she?" and he avoided it, so i yelled it. and he answered "yes" "but it was just to help me sudy" and the screaming started, i threw the plate with the food at him.

    this was all just because i thought he had LIED to me. not because i could admit to myself yet that he was cheating on me. with her.

    Ellie came in and saw me screaming, he just stood there in the door looking guilty an pathetic... and kinda mad, like i shouldnt be mad because he did nothing wrong, and she said "mama rawr" and i told him to get the **** out. and he did. she left too, sniffling and saying "i'm sorry mama" ....and i let them go. i dont know where they went. i sat down and hugged my babies and fell apart. and i called my friend Allie. she finally came over with beer. He came home later that night. still walking around like there was nothing else wrong. She didnt come in that night. Allie and i went for a walk and passed her on the sidewalk.

    next day -sunday. she's back. they're both sorry. heck, she brought her neice over to babysit that day. i went to work. i ate nothing except chocolate cake. everything made me nauseus. My sister came over that night, and me and him (she left... wonder why) sat and cried and tried to figure things out. he was bawling and telling me how much he didnt want to lose me and how sorry he was and i told him this : "i lost you a long time ago" and i had no idea how very true that was. he told me he was so sorry for how much everything had sucked and he was going to change right away.

    because even though i had told him she needed to get out... he wanted me to give her a few days. I freaked out on him. freaked out. wouldnt let him leave my sight. we took a really stupid trip to the shoe store ALL OF US. that might have been the day he wanted to put the doors back on his truck, i followed him to 3 parts stores (he knew i was following) with the kids and then sat right there while he worked on it, even though he kept yelling at Ellie for getting in his way.

    that night the vibe was off. it was hot, and pouring. and still hot. i still hadn't eaten more than a couple bites all day. i ended up laying on the floor on my side of the bed by the wall bawling. it was wrong. i couldnt figure it out. everything was wrong. He kept coming in and telling Ellie to leave me alone, she kept hugging me and rubbing my face and saying "kay? kay? awww, mama" she was trying to tell me it was going to be ok. Bubba went to bed for the night. I tried to talk to Bill.i asked for his cell phone, he wouldnt give it to me, then he finally did give it to me and said he had just emptied his messages anyway. he was laying across the bed and just telling me to go to bed, it would be ok, i was tired, and i said "no, i'm not tired, i don't need Ellie to leave me along, thats not the problem" and i looked him in the eyes. and i stopped crying. and i said "thats not it. whats wrong. what do you need to tell me" and he said "its too hot in here" and walked out the door. i didnt follow. i had 2 kids. during this time i pretended not to notice that she packed her tote... heck, thats my tote, and left too. i got up to get on facebook..... and his account was up. i clicked on his messages. there was one waiting from her that said "even if i have to leave i'll always love you"

    WTF EVEN IF? so i pretty much couldnt deny it.

    I got dressed. Ellie was still up,i got her dresse din rain gear and went out. since he wouldnt answer his cell. i looked in his truck... he wasnt in there, i should have seen that she was though..... and then i saw something move way out on the other side of the parking lot and i went out after him. i had to yell at him that i wasnt going to stop following him until he talked to me before he'd come over to talk to me. i asked him about the messages, he shrugged said it meant nothing. and then he said he was ****ing leaving. and i told him NO, he can stay and clean up his mess, i'm leaving. and i kicked him in the nuts. hard. forward push kick. he went down. i went back in the house. Passed her on the sidewalk. a few minutes later he got in his truck and left.

    so i started calling him. he wouldnt answer. so i called connie. she called his friend. he called back finally. i asked what was going on. if it was more than brother sister and he said yes. i aske dhow long, he said a couple months. i told him to come home so we could talk.

    i'm going to have to finish this later my hands are freezing and i'm at work so i can't break down righ tnow.
    ~Jenni~
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  5. #45
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    ... the only thing worse than bringing it up is stopping in the middle of the story i guess.

    he came back. left her sitting in his truck while he came inside. by now its after midnight. i don't remember exatly what we said, i remember falling to my knees feeling like there was a knife in me. major damage to internal organs. he broke my heart. and instead of just staying which is what i begged him to do. he left. i threw up. a few times.

    i called another friend downstate. called my sister again. Bubba woke up. had to start the next Shrek movie. Eventually got Ellie to sleep, then Bubba. but i couldnt sleep. called them each a few more times.

    finally, around 7 am i started calling him again, he said we'd talk in the morning. i gave up and called his BFFs house eventually, thinking he was the only man on the planet that could talk some sense into Bill. They didnt answer. I had to work in the morning..... i feel awful still because my boss had moles removed and they didnt warn her that she was supposed to not work afterwards. but i couldnt stay. i had to take both kids to work with me as it was. Finally outside work i called his buddy again and they answered FINALLY. Bill had gone there. of course, he was ****ing her in their camper... and i never did get to talk to charlie, just his brother, but i fel at peace knowing he was there where people might be stupid but at least i knew what kind of stupid they were.

    when i left work at 11:30 he said he'd come back and talkto me. well, he came back at 2 AFTER HE DROPPED HER OFF AT WORK. he said he was sorry. that he wanted me not her. fell asleep in his chair, because he was running a fever and sicker than heck. and an hour later when she called and needed to get picked up, and whined in his ear, he left and he took MY CAR to go pick her up, and sat outside with her, and Ellie who was waiting for a friend to come pick her up to play. And then my mom called and mentioned somehting she'd written on facebook.

    and i threatened to kill her as soon as i saw it, which is where it gets fun. my mom called the cops so i wouldnt kill her, Bill left with her to "drop her off" and i told him he had 1 hour or he was losing us all forever. and my sister and friend came over, and the cops showed up and i talked to them and told them that i hadn't killed anyone, and that i was not alone, i had friends, and they told me to call them if she came back.

    and then he txted me and told me that he needed some time to think, and i txted him back and said i wanted him to have time tothink but i knew he wasnt alone and that wasnt ok.

    so we started cleaning house. my sister ordered pizza to try and get me to eat since i'd had half a banana and water all day. thats it. spit out starburst because it made me nauseus. At about 8:45 (his deadline was 6 before that) i heard his truck pull in. my sister locked the door. i made her unlock it. he knocked, and he came in, and he asked to talk to me. he sat on the cored of the bed which was covered in his stuff, mine had all been moved to the kids room, and he put his arms around me, and laid his head on my chest, and told me that he picked me and he didnt want her. And i took him back. kinda.

    we didnt sleep that night, he ran a fever all night, his throat was awful, we dozed a bit, i gave him meds. At 6 we gave up sleeping and i went on facebook to waste time. first thing i saw was a picture she had posted, looked like they were both naked, sitting in a chair that i didnt recognize in a room i didnt recognize- i guess it was the hotel room. and she wouldnt take it down. Win here one of her close friends who saw it replied WTF and i messaged him and told him and he hasnt spoken to her since. talk about burning bridges. She finally took it down at like 11 that day after lots of txt messages between the 2 of them, all of which i chaperoned. it was not pretty. so not pretty. it hurt me that i now had to help him let her down easy so that she wouldnt freak out and do something like ... show up at my door.. which would get me throwin in jail... unless they couldnt find the body... i took him to the Dr, Jane watched the kids. the woman is an angel. thats alli have to say. i've met so many angels lately.

    he didnt want to talk to her. message her, txt her.. .sometimes. she kept txting him good night for like a week. until both their phones ran out of minutes. our internet cut out too. so we stopped talking kinda. She called the house once- and another time freaking out.... he wouldnt talk to her the second time.

    he says he feels like he was brainwashed by her. he has been working with her ex-boyfriend, who says that he felt the same way when he was with her. brainwashed. there is no doubt she's very manipulative.

    The last week of september this all went down. the first 2 weeks of october they didnt have much communication. then he got minutes, internet got fixed and a few messages went back and forth. suddenly she's *****ing at him for not talking to her, not giving him any time to figure things out. Suddenly he's not answering anything. She continued to stalk him- calling from other numbers or *67 or txting from her friends phones.... calling the house phone sometimes... it got bad. went on until x-mas..... progressively worse. he got a new phone with a new number. we moved. new house phone number. now she can't find him.

    and then she pulled all that "i was pregnant with his baby and lost it" bull..... funny, her 2 x-f***buddies will tell me they were banging her up to the time she claims she found out, and then they continued to bang her for the month after that, until well after she moved in to our apartment....
    ~Jenni~
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  6. #46
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    We've gotten in to counseling, but it don't think its helping much. yet. maybe?

    The other night at like 2 am Jim brought a friend in to crash on our couch.. new couch.... friend is a smoker.... nobody planned ahead. i said no. he said oh well, i said NO get up and get them out. he said "uh..." and i said get out and sleep on the couch if you can't freaking listen to what i need. so he did.

    and while i'm sure there were roots to that in previous issues. for example- i decided that i was right and he was wrong on this because he wanted her to move in and i said no and when it happened anyway it was BAD so we're going to trust my judgement... but it was about his choice THAT NIGHT not because i was mad about anything else. and i am at peace with that night BECAUSE other times we have conflict i end up not sleeping. sure i was up for a bit- but i got back to sleep that night, and i don't care if he did, because i got to sleep. i made the right choice if i got to sleep.

    i've stopped expecting him to do anything at all... in the house, for chores. i give instructions when he's home, and if he wants my time an attention he does them or i ignore him and remind him that there are 2 of us and i'm not the housewife- i bring in as much money or more than he does so it is unfair for him to have time out of the house to play and sex ect, when i am simply relegated to parent, clean, work, be a good little *****. oh, i'm a *****, but not a good little one.
    ~Jenni~
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  7. #47
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    i'm marking this just for reference now.

    1. i have decided that i'm not going to stalk her through the work account unless i'm AT work. once a week is all i check.

    2. sometime over the last few weeks i stopped hearing her voice in my head. and some of the resentment i've been harboring for her released ... faded. and the summer weather we've been having has NOT triggered any more resentment.

    3. i've decided that this year, when it has been a full 12 months, is when the reminders stop. we stop bringing it up. end of story. maybe make a code word for the rare occasions it needs to be discussed.

    4. in my daily stalking, talking to jim "made her day" which is funny as heck because he hates her guts and would happily help me hide the body. and then in her whining her aunt told her to "fight for the man that she loves" and to some degree i SOOO want to go at it with her! because i can ***** him out every day and he'll stay. and if he doesnt, i'm ok with that. which is kinda sad because i used to love him more than that, but i was never his hurt and broken before either. i never had to live for the kids before and put them ahead of not only myself but to put them ahead of him too.

    5. i really don't have any bad memories in this apartment. nothing like the last 2 apartments. we might have been happy, and happy things happened, but we dealt with really crappy things too many times to really enjoy life at either place.
    ~Jenni~
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  8. #48
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    i gotta update more often.

    a month ago i applied for a few jobs. called on them every day. they were all filled then i got an e-mail from a daycare saying more staff were moving away and they wanted to interview me. 45 minutes later i left the interview with the job, she hired me on the spot. i've been running evening for a week now at a daycare. dinner-close which should be 11 but sometimes runs later Bill puts the kids to bed. and it kinda works. he has been working at Moeller for 2 weeks. until today. he got fired. lack of work? maybe he can get back in there again later when they need more staff...... so he's applying for the job he turned down last summer right now, and i hope the hours don't overlap that much with the daycare shift! maybe the kids can come play with me through dinner time and then go home to bed with him.

    either way, i have a full time job, the shifts allow me to spend most of the day with the kids still, and not take them to work. we are financially close if not fully stable because of the job.

    we are having some issues with our apartment building though, neighbor is bored and pissy, keeps complaining about stupid stuff, got us written up once already now we need to fix a chronic oil leak or risk another violation and get kicked out. and i like this apartment. i will fight if i hear any more from him though. he doesnt know who he is dealing with.

    usually we are getting along, but sometimes when he gets all involved in himself i want him out of my life. its annoying. he expects so much from other people but never puts forth effort himself he expects his brother to stay and do stuff, takes atvantage of my mom, but doesnt do anything in return. karma karma karma.

    or my mazda will run over your honda.... nvm....

    i am trying to figure something out though. he uses my razor. i dont like it. i ask him nicely not to do it. i buy differnet color razors. he still claims he cant remember when its mine not his. i think he's just too lazy to be polite about it and uses whatever is left in the shower. so ..... do i get mad because he can be courteous to my skin- dull razors cause cuts! i need to shave to be groomed for work, not for personal entertainment- same with letting Ellie get into my makeup etc..... or do i keep trying to find a solution to a problem we've had for 4 freaking years, or do i spend a bunch of money buying really nice razors and refills so he doesnt forget? is it REALLY worth all the money and trouble?

    but its not just razors, other stuff too.... and i can't waste my life solving litle things so i can make it through a day! ugh....
    ~Jenni~
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  9. #49
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    update: we bought a house, got a dog, i am loving my full time evening job and he is working full time at the same resort that he's been with for 5 years, but now he's in a year-round full time position instead of seasonal. we got a dog.


    Things to accomplish before baby #3.
    1. wait until at least june. run hero rush with sisters.
    2. pay off credit card B. pay off my C credit card. save emergency fund.
    3. fix water pressure tank, stove, blow in insulation in attic eves, around upstairs window, get chest freezer.
    4. get healthier to minimize risk of complications in next pregnancy.
    5. get operating computer.
    6. purge and organize in house to make chores easier when pregnant.
    7. plant trees, organize yard and property to meet our needs.
    8. have plan for windmill.
    9. pray this all works and i can get pregnant at a fortuitious time.


    thats really all i needed to post.
    ~Jenni~
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  10. #50
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    if you ever want to drive yourself crazy, get pregnant and question things.

    my brain hurts right now. i joined a questioning vaccines group and now i'm hearing suddenly how bad tylenol is! aaaahhhh! i'm trying to tackle vaccines, not every medicine out there!

    it is INSANELY hard to separate one issue from another though, especially things like vaccines from "naturopathic medicine and you must live completely clean, organic, and wheat (soy, dairy) free to be healthy!"

    flouride helps teeth or is poison? its soo hard to figure it out!

    its hard for me to believe that everything is really just one massive conspiracy out there, but every sign points to the answer that it IS all just a conspiracy. i have no idea what people gain from controlling everyone else except satisfaction.... but maybe thats enough for them!

    What comes out of this is that i feel guilty refusing vaccines which i know are ineffective and full of poisons...because i ate starburst. yup. makes tons of sense. right? NOT. but you see, I know they are connected!

    so, i use zofran, unisom, and starburst to make it through pregnancy. therefore i'm a victim and unable to make the educated choice to not vaccinate.

    why can't i just live on MY land and have NOBODY bother me for my choices. just respect them. please. its hard enough making the choice.... second guessing sucks. i have enough trouble figuring out if me and my husband agree!

    Viruses are a risk that happens inherant with living on earth. while its lovely that we can try so many things to prevent infection, my children will not be guinea pigs when you haven't proven safety in drug trials that i personally accept. other drugs must undergo a double blind placebo study and vaccines don't. end of story.
    ~Jenni~
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