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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sonsplus1 View Post
    I hope it does go better with you. If she is as sweet as you say, maybe she just needs you to sit with her and watch the kids play. Do you have outdoor furniture where you could sit and have coffee after dinner and watch the kids playing together in the yard?

    ODD is "Oppositional Defiant Disorder." It is not considered a disability but is a mental health diagnosis. My son Patrick has ADHD, by the way, and I'm pretty sure he did not get it from his environment, or at least not exclusively. He has some sensory and perceptual issues as well, and I'm not sure which was the chicken and which was the egg, so to speak.
    I did not mean to say ADHD is not a real disorder--or ONLY from environment. Sorry if it sounded that way--please don't think I meant everyone. But I think it is is often an excuse for poor parenting choices, or becomes a problem as a result of environment/parenting. My sister is one of those I am thinking of. When her oldest was 18 months, they put him in a toddler bed because he climbed out of the crib. Not a bad choice by itself, but then he wouldn't stay in bed. So, they didn't force the issue, just would let him stay up until 11, 12, 1, even 2 am! He would usually fall asleep "wherever" because they wouldn't make him just go to bed. When he was about 7, she said he was sleeping about 7 hours a night--from midnight until 7 am. I told her he really needed more sleep than that, and she said, but he "doesn't fall asleep until we do, and then i get him up for school". She also said he wouldn't stay in bed. I suggested a warning of something he loves taken away "no tv" or something if he gets out again, and if he does it, follow through! I asked the next day...yes he got out of bed. Did you warn? Yes. did he do it again? yes. Did he have no tv today? "Well, not very much....just a little bit after school." Hmm....you realize you just let him know that punishments mean squat?

    He has also been pumped full of sugar--they drink nothing but koolaid and soda--caffienated too. They came for a long weekend to stay with us a few years back, and brought a full backpack full of sodas. The kid had a liter soda to drink every day, sometimes 2--of mountain dew. He refused to drink water at our mealtimes saying "I hate water".

    And most food is processed--a LOT of mcD's (thats where my bil works maintenance), kraft mac n cheese, hamburger helper, fish sticks, etc.

    I just really think in HIS case, that his environment (sleep and food) and parenting really contributed to his ADHD.

    Both her kids have actually been in foster care for the last 2 years and I guess his ADHD has significantly improved, as has his sleeping and eating, though he is still classified as having eating and sleeping disorders. But in his case, he was 9 before he was removed from my sister and bil. So a lot of upbringing/learning had already taken place. They also thought he was learning disabled because he couldn't read past Kindergarten level in 4th grade--he was put in foster care and jumped 4 grade reading levels in 7 months because they limited TV and worked with him on homework.

    Sorry for the long novel--I just wanted to explain myself. I really didn't mean it the way it sounded.
    Holly
    DS 2/04
    DD 10/05
    DS 7/08
    DS 1/12
    #5--a GIRL due 3/2/14!

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  2. #12
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    wow Holly. I feel so so bad for your nephew. I am glad he is getting some boundaries and help! I have a brother that was labeled ADHD as a kid, and I think he did have some real problems there, but they were definitely perpetuated by the home environment. Its hard to see kids struggling. Will your sister and her husband be able to get their kids back? Or is it better that they don't?
    Rachel, momma to 4
    dd 9, ds 7, twin boys Dec 09
    I nursed my twins for 2years and 2 weeks! A little sad to be all done now.

  3. #13
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    They are working on it and might actually get them back this summer. The turning point when they were taken was my sisters severe PPD so the boy was 9 but the baby girl was 2 months. They have taken many classes and counseling still maybe need more, but she is really trying lately and seems to have matured a lot. I hope what happens is for the best. We considered fostering the kids bit didn't--a lot of reasons came into play.
    Holly
    DS 2/04
    DD 10/05
    DS 7/08
    DS 1/12
    #5--a GIRL due 3/2/14!

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  4. #14
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    Well, I am glad to hear that things are going better, and hopefully they can keep it together for their kids, whether their kids are living with them or not.
    Rachel, momma to 4
    dd 9, ds 7, twin boys Dec 09
    I nursed my twins for 2years and 2 weeks! A little sad to be all done now.

  5. #15
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    Wow, Holly, I'm glad they're getting help. I wish that there were parenting classes that anybody could take without having some kind of stigma on them. Many parents that I know of think that their job as the parent is to please their children. I think some even have the idea that discipline is mean, when in reality, what children crave most (besides love and attention) is boundaries.

    Deb ................. DH Norm
    DS Caleb, 13 ...... DS Patrick, 12
    DS Isaiah, 8 ......... DS Thomas, 7

    DD Cherish, 6....... DD Emily, 7\18\13 ....... Ripple, 17
    William, 14 weeks, 4/11/12

  6. #16
    Posting Addict ashamom27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sonsplus1 View Post
    Many parents that I know of think that their job as the parent is to please their children. I think some even have the idea that discipline is mean, when in reality, what children crave most (besides love and attention) is boundaries.
    That is the golden truth! So many parents sneer at rules and discipline in front of their kids. They think it's "old fashioned" I actually saw a mom roll her eyes about some rule that a first grade teacher had! Her DD is the one that is unable to cope. The funny thing is ( or the sad thing) that her mom made sure that her DD had all the fun all the time, from the time this girl was little, that now that she is older, she is constantly disappointed with anything she does or experiences- since her mom can't really control everything like she did when her daughter was little. The girl actually said after a vacation to a waterpark:" I always get my hopes up, but something always ruins the fun for me". She was talking about waiting in line.

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  7. #17
    Community Host sarahsunshine's Avatar
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    Asha – I’m with you. I feel that Skyler is in that boat. He expects everything to be catered to him, that everything should be entertaining and fun, that everything should be what he wants. Part of that is being a 12yo boy, but a lot more than I think either of his biological parents want to admit, comes from the fact that he gets what he wants most of the time – especially if he whines, yells, and debates it. UGH!

    And then DH wonders why he gets so frustrated dealing with Skyler! I want to shake DH and say “Can’t you see? It’s because you’ve trained him to!”

    Funny thing is, DH is right on the consequences with Ivy whining and not listening at 2yo… yet Skyler at 12 can whine and debate every_single_time? UGH!!!

    I think there is a lot to be said for discipline, but at the same time there’s a lot to be said for not having rules, and letting the kids learn boundaries for themselves through experience. The trick is getting the balance right. I think that if things are too rule-oriented, it can make a child a lazy thinker – more robot-like and not thinking of consequences. Whereas if you let kids figure things out, that they get to be able to judge for themselves. However, (and I am by no means an expert), it depends on the kid. This is where I think it can be particularly tough in large families. Some kids need more guidance and rules in certain areas than others, and you need the kids to understand that differently does not mean unfairly…

    Some kids do great with very few rules (our friends have basically done this – they’ve never made their kids go to school even unless they wanted to), and they have 2 fantastic kids. On the other hand, I don’t think this works for everyone.
    Skyler Dylan 22 April 1999
    Reed Aslan 17 June 2007 ~ 8 September 2008
    Ivy Rayne 3 May 2009
    Leo Spencer 2 Sept 2010
    Forrest Reed 15 Aug 2012


  8. #18
    Posting Addict ashamom27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarahsunshine View Post
    Funny thing is, DH is right on the consequences with Ivy whining and not listening at 2yo… yet Skyler at 12 can whine and debate every_single_time? UGH!!!
    That must be frustrating but like you said, it made Skyler a harder kid to deal with, so if DH sticks to discipline with Ivy, it will benefit her in the long run. As long as it's a loving kind of discipline.

    I think there is a lot to be said for discipline, but at the same time there’s a lot to be said for not having rules, and letting the kids learn boundaries for themselves through experience. The trick is getting the balance right. I think that if things are too rule-oriented, it can make a child a lazy thinker – more robot-like and not thinking of consequences. Whereas if you let kids figure things out, that they get to be able to judge for themselves
    Yes, this lets them experience more situations in life that they learn from. Like giving them their own pocket money to spend at a gift store on anything they want...then they buy this useless gimmick that they regret upon opening the package...


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  9. #19
    Posting Addict gardenbug's Avatar
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    he gets what he wants most of the time – especially if he whines, yells, and debates it
    Because he had a very rough start in life with medical issues, Skyler's parents tended to focus on spoiling him. Besides, he was very cute and they were delighted he was alive and with them! Then when the divorce came, there were guilt and even some forms of competition, so he got even more than he anticipated in terms of travel, parties and gifts...and little guidance on good eating habits, whining, tantrums, manners, etc.

    Much of this has improved greatly in the past 5 years! (I'm not saying there isn't room for more improvement though.) But I have been surprised that his Dad hasn't seen his ploys and helped work on them to guide him in the future. Unfortunately I believe his parents still feel that he is special and different and cannot be like others, that at some level he is not normal and should be catered to.

    I think that Skyler is VERY fortunate to have younger siblings whom he adores. They give him a second chance to learn about manners and behavior, selfishness and greed, and to develop manual dexterity with puzzles and drawing that otherwise would seem "babyish" if he were not the teacher and helper for the younger ones.

    He can be a great kid but is a little slower at being observant than others because of his medical past and because he is doted upon by his parents. I think his new school in the Fall may be a great help. With more physical exercise, new friends, and some independence I expect we'll see some changes. Of course 13-16 may be very difficult years for him, but he WILL make it through! There may be many girls phoning!

    Growing up is harder work for some than others.
    Leo (3 1/2) with Malcolm the cat

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