Help, how to deal with 2yo? (Update post #10)
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Thread: Help, how to deal with 2yo? (Update post #10)

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    Community Host sarahsunshine's Avatar
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    Default Help, how to deal with 2yo? (Update post #10)

    Instead of hijacking Hollybear’s thread I thought I’d start a new one.

    Ivy seems to be turning into the 2yo that always wants the toy that someone else picks, and I was going to ask about how to deal with it.

    Ivy is very organized and wants everything to be in the right place. If you don’t do it, she screams like you’re pulling her finger nails out! It could be a plate, or a fork, or a person sitting in the wrong chair, or, more recently, DSS (12yo) deliberately sitting on her chair and then saying “why are you yelling at me” (she has a toddler sized camping chair and a high stool/chair for her at the dining room table)?

    We’ve managed to get it somewhat under control by telling her that we won’t do anything unless she asks nicely (she would scream immediately instead of asking nicely first). She can and frequently does ask very nicely. It’s great (though I have to get DH to actually do whatever it is the first time she asks before she screams!)

    And with the other kids she plays with, she keeps trying to take away the toy that they have… I’m tired of chasing her around and constantly playing police. At the fair, this past week, there were 2 identical little red cars to play in, and a toddler her age. The little boy got in one of the cars and she ran over to it and evicted him. So he went to the other one. She promptly got out and chased the other little boy out of that one. He went back to the first one. At the time, I was trying to nurse Leo, and the other parent was there with him, so I asked her to please tell Ivy to let TJ have a turn. I don’t think explaining is that effective at this age, but taking her out of the situation doesn’t teach her to take turns. Any advice?

    And what happened with dealing with other people’s kids? If Ivy had just picked up a toy and someone ripped it out of her hands, I would tell the other kid that it wasn’t appropriate. Now if Ivy does the same to another kid, I would tell her to give it back because it’s not her turn. TJ’s parent did nothing, and there I was trying to feed Leo in the rain, and get Ivy to listen to me (to no avail – she just got more angry that TJ would use one of the 2 cars).

    Another thing Ivy does is she deliberately yells her lungs out at Leo (9mo), or hits him, when he’s sleeping in his car seat and she can reach. Of course, this scares the sh!t out of him and he wakes up screaming. She does it because she’s bored and likes the reaction I think (she gets attention from everyone – parents, Leo, DSS). I have no idea how to stop this. I would give her a book, but then she will hit Leo on the head with it (no kidding). I would separate their car seats, but unfortunately they can’t be put in any other configuration in the truck which we use to go camping… Any ideas? Similarly, DH found her lying on top of Leo when DH thought she was playing on the deck and Leo was sleeping in his crib. She deliberately climber in his crib and steam-rolled him while he was sleeping just to hear him yell.


    I’m also having trouble getting Ivy to listen (DSS is terrible). When DSS isn’t with us, she’s better than when he is with us. (It’s made me realize even more how ineffective we are with dSS). With Ivy, I will ask her once nicely. “Ivy, please don’t kick the walls of the camper.” If she stops, lots of praise. If she ignores me, it’s a very firm “I asked you nicely to stop.” And is he doesn’t stop, she gets removed from the situation. She’s developed this fake cry when she knows she shouldn’t do something and gets in trouble for it – it’s pretty funny… But then DSS gets asked a million times (he gets away with a bunch because he honestly doesn’t hear it – but then he takes advantage of being deaf too).

    So the issues here are several fold: learning to listen, learning to take turns, and learning to ask nicely. I don’t want to set rules in stone, because I think things need to be flexible and learn to think for herself too. Why shouldn’t DSS sit in Ivy’s chair if she’s not using it? On the other hand, if she asks nicely, why should she not have it?

    Also, DSS deliberately baits her – but that’s a different issue – it just doesn’t help the situation to begin with. With DSS, we were just attributing stuff to being siblings. However, this past weekend we also had comments from a friend saying that DSS was being deliberately mean to Ivy periodically.


    I’m sure I’m not the only one to deal with this behaviour… what do you guys do? What should I try? Ideas?

    Don't get me wrong, she's WONDERFUL a lot of the time… But I want to stop this behaviour before it gets much worse… It’s gotten much worse in the past week.
    Last edited by sarahsunshine; 06-24-2011 at 11:27 AM. Reason: It was completely discombobulated...
    Skyler Dylan 22 April 1999
    Reed Aslan 17 June 2007 ~ 8 September 2008
    Ivy Rayne 3 May 2009
    Leo Spencer 2 Sept 2010
    Forrest Reed 15 Aug 2012


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    Being aware and DOING something to stop this behavior is a great thing to do. If you read my bullying post, you've heard my end of this sort of thing. So by your siggy, she just turned 2 very recently. I think you sound like you are doing pretty much everything right, and it will just take some time to sink in. My youngest was my very hardest toddler--it seemed he did things to his OLDER siblings all the time, just to be mean. If someone had something of his or that he wanted (toddler property laws!), immediate reaction was to scream at the top of his lungs. We continued to tell him no, make him ask in a nice way, and encouraged the kids to acknowledge his requests (and at the beginning before he really understood "let me finish using it" or "in one minute" we would have them give him a turn immediately. So that he understood asking nice gets you something good. We also stared time outs at 2.

    He doesnt have a younger sibling to beat up on (yet) but he's usually pretty nice to babies, so I don't have much in that respect.

    Oh, and other parent's reactions of "she's being mean and selfish" are very inappropriate! She is a 2 year old and learning appropriate social behaviors comes with the age. I'm very non confrontational, so I probably wouldn't say anything to them, but if they continue and especially if she can hear, I would probably say "no, she is 2 and we are still working on learning to share", because she can internalize that she is a "mean" kid and she gets older if people say those things.

    Good luck with parenting what sounds like a spirited little girl!
    Holly
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    Posting Addict ashamom27's Avatar
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    I remember when my first daughter was 2, she was the only girl in the house. She knew exactly what her things were and she never really had to share them since the boys had no interest in her girly stuff.... then I decided to invite 2 little girls for a playdate... All Karolina did was run from one girl to another, ripping the toys out of the girls' hands yelling: "mine, mine!!!" I was SO beet red and embarrassed!!! I thought I raised a monster b/c my boys had no problems with sharing. So I knew from that point on that I had to condition her to be able to share.
    For example: if Skyler sits down in Ivy's stool and she wasn't using it, but is protesting- he can ask in a sweet voice: " Can you share?" ( or you can ask, if S doesn't want to play up) The voice has to be super sweet like it's a great idea ( think Barney). If she says yes then you give her hugs and smiles and say thank yous.Stay in the stool for a little bit then get off. If she says no, act sad and don't look at her, but do get off her chair. That's what we usually do at home. We use similar sweet voice to ask if she/he can take turns ( we are talking toddlers here).
    Sometimes we put the disputed toy in time out with a timer on.

    If she learns that taking turns and sharing is a fun thing to do, you can still use that sing-song voice in public and hopefully it will work. They do get better with time!

    Oh my God she really knows about pushing buttons with Leo, huh? If I found her in his crib once, I would tell her sternly that she is not allowed to go in there, I would be to the point of raising my voice. Two minute time out for sure. if it happened again, I would spank b/c to me that's a safety issue. Can you install those door knob covers so she can't get in?
    The carseat thing must be SO frustrating!!! I really don't know exactly what I would do , maybe scorn her and pay most of the attention to Leo? Asking him if he is OK, saying things like: " you poor thing..." all the while ignoring her?

    Hugs. having two kids close in age is hard, but it does get easier.

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    Community Host sarahsunshine's Avatar
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    Thanks guys! I know it's a stage to go through and I'm not panicking... I just wonder how best to deal with it. Do they grow out of it if left to their on devices, or do they turn into snotty self-centered kids? I guess it probably depends on the child and situation...

    Yes, the crib should be off limits, I agree.

    I also think that if we do it right we could get DSS to play along in the sharing game (it would do him tons of good too!).

    Now to get DH on board...
    Skyler Dylan 22 April 1999
    Reed Aslan 17 June 2007 ~ 8 September 2008
    Ivy Rayne 3 May 2009
    Leo Spencer 2 Sept 2010
    Forrest Reed 15 Aug 2012


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    I think those are some great suggestions. I think in addition to Asha's sharing game to teach the fun of sharing, if she was doing what she did with the little boy and the cars, I'd make her go to time out for 2 minutes and then say sorry to the little boy. Having to sit and watch him while he has fun on the cars would help the message to sink in that being nice leads to fun and being mean - even if she doesn't yet know the meaning of the word - will lead to no fun. And sure, she may have no concept at this age of what it means to share, be nice, be mean, etc., this is the age that she needs to start learning those things. I wouldn't have a problem saying, "That was mean, give it back and ask nicely." (Not the same as saying that the child is mean.)

    Deb ................. DH Norm
    DS Caleb, 13 ...... DS Patrick, 12
    DS Isaiah, 8 ......... DS Thomas, 7

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    William, 14 weeks, 4/11/12

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sonsplus1 View Post
    I wouldn't have a problem saying, "That was mean, give it back and ask nicely." (Not the same as saying that the child is mean.)
    Totally agree--label the action and not the child. I am OFTEN heard saying "that was unkind" or "that was a selfish thing to do" As opposed to YOU are mean or YOU are selfish (or a brat or the like). With my older 2 I usually ask them to tell me if something they did was kind, or how they would feel had that happened to them. But not my 2 yo.
    Holly
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    Posting Addict ashamom27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarahsunshine View Post
    . Do they grow out of it if left to their on devices, or do they turn into snotty self-centered kids?
    I would say that it is best to address the behavior and teach them. I think that the "bossiness" is somewhat inborn in some kids and if it isn't corrected, it will just perpetuate. I see so many older kids who still act like little toddlers.
    I feel that when they are little, it is our opportunity, our window to teach them at least the basics ( share, be kind, don't be bossy, etc) Sure as they mature, they get easier to reason with or they have had enough life experience and social interaction to learn from, but they do need the "basics". IMHO.

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    Love the suggestions given, storing them in my book, because I can see these problems coming up soon with the twins. They are too little to understand sharing, but sure enjoy taking things from one another.
    Rachel, momma to 4
    dd 9, ds 7, twin boys Dec 09
    I nursed my twins for 2years and 2 weeks! A little sad to be all done now.

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    I agree with Asha. They do outgrow it, but not when left to their own devices. You need to teach them right from wrong. It doesn't help that Ivy's step brother is setting exactly the wrong kind of example for her. I do think that including him would be a great idea. He can still learn, and letting him be a "mentor" to his little sister might be a motivator for him to set a good example.

    Deb ................. DH Norm
    DS Caleb, 13 ...... DS Patrick, 12
    DS Isaiah, 8 ......... DS Thomas, 7

    DD Cherish, 6....... DD Emily, 7\18\13 ....... Ripple, 17
    William, 14 weeks, 4/11/12

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    Community Host sarahsunshine's Avatar
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    I thought I’d give an update (it’s only been a short time).

    It’s neat how fast things can change.

    Ivy is still screaming and stuff, but Skyler (DSS 12yo) has been explained the situation. On the weekend, we explained to Skyler that Ivy gets asked/told nicely and politely the first time. Then she gets a stern command if she doesn’t do it (she does it the first time many times). Then she gets removed and a time out if we have to ask her a third time. He thought that was great and easy to understand.

    Then, on Tuesday, we pointed out that he was getting the same treatment as Ivy from now on – not we’ll keep asking you until it gets done. He didn’t like that one bit. Especially when we pointed out that his “time out or removal from the situation” was not the 2 minutes that Ivy gets, but an hour in his room (or bathroom), an exponential set of lines to write, or a job to do. We also told him that this applied to him doing things that he knows he isn’t supposed to do and has been asked 100000 times (i.e. “Don’t wake Ivy up to tell her goodnight.” “Don’t chew your toothbrush.” “Wash your hair when you take a shower.” “Don’t yell at your dad.” “Don’t put your face 1 inch from the kids to annoy them.”) He got 20 lines, and has been better since then… In fact, since he got the 20 lines, he’s been a lot more pleasant to be around! He also started coming to us and saying “I know I’m supposed to be doing something and I can’t remember what it was. Do you know what it is?” I almost had a heart attack!


    Added on to that, many times he baits and baits Ivy, and then when she starts screaming he gives her back what she had to begin with. So yesterday, we explained to him that what he is doing is training her to scream for what she wants. So, if she screams, he is not allowed to give it to her.

    We have asked him to be helpful with this (he hates it when she screams, but loves being in control), and that he can be the one to help keep her happy and non-screaming. Since he likes the idea of teaching her and her loving him to bits, he likes this idea. So, we demonstrated with him, just yesterday, how we deal with Ivy. If she screams, tell her nicely to ask nicely. Listen and do what she is asking to her the first time (don’t ignore her until she screams). Say please and thank-you to her, if you want her to do the same to you (he thinks it’s so cute when she says please and thank you). Don’t rip things away from her (she screams), ask nicely if you can have them. If she asks nicely, give it to her. Give her lots of praise for being nice. If she can’t have it, give her even more praise for being nice, and explain to her she can’t have it right now. Then give her a job to do so she feels helpful. (“You asked so nicely for chocolate milk. That’s wonderful. But Ivy can’t have chocolate milk right now. Can you go put this egg carton in the Blue Bin please?”)

    This is working great, so far (it’s been 24 hours almost!).

    Skyler goes back to his mom’s for a week. I’m sure we’ll have to re-train him when he gets back, but I hope it’s not too tough…
    Skyler Dylan 22 April 1999
    Reed Aslan 17 June 2007 ~ 8 September 2008
    Ivy Rayne 3 May 2009
    Leo Spencer 2 Sept 2010
    Forrest Reed 15 Aug 2012


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